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Is Red diseased??

2K views 33 replies 6 participants last post by  TaylorW 
#1 ·
So after about four years in my care I think Reds time with me is coming to an end. ='( Last night I noticed he was just laying at the bottom of the tank, like he had just died, but when I opened the feeder area he perked right up and was swimming around. After he swam around a bit he layed back down on the floor of the tank. I noticed he has a belly on him, which is weird because I don't feed him excessively. Maybe its because he's old? Also, he's got tiny white specks on him almost looking like air bubbles (they could be air bubbles but i've never seen them on him before) and a mark on his back. I will try and get as best pictures I can of him.


Housing
What size is your tank? 5 Gallon
What temperature is your tank? Room temp
Does your tank have a filter? Yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? I am not sure
Is your tank heated? No, but I plan on getting a heater soon.
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? My Pleco, Bob

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? I was feeding Aqueon betta food, but I just switched to Omega One tropical fish pellets.
How often do you feed your betta fish? 5 - 6 days a week

Maintenance
How often do you perform a water change? Every 2-3 months, needs one now I think.
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? All of it.
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Top Fin Water Conditioner

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity:

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? White specks on body and one scar looking one on his back.
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? He's lethargic. He only swims when he thinks im giving him food. Then he just lays at the bottom.
When did you start noticing the symptoms? Last night, 11/28
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? No
Does your fish have any history of being ill? No
How old is your fish (approximately)? 4 years
 
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#3 ·
I think it might be Ick (or Ich) from poor water quality, not his age! Don't be so hasty to count the old man out! :p

He really needs a 100% water change once a week, once every 2-3 months is not good for your little guy :(

Pick up some aquarium salt and a heater, then crank the heat up to 82 degrees F and add aquarium salt for 7 days. Or you can use QuickCure from Walmart instead of salt, make sure to used the dose for tetras! The water must be warm to cure ich because it is a parasite that will only come off the fish in warm water. Once it is off the fish, you fish's immune system will kick in and fight it or the medicine in the water will kill them. That will help his ich!

I would google Ich if I were you to get a general idea of how the parasite functions.
 
#4 ·
To me it looks like it could be Ick, but there are other diseases that look like Ick but aren't so I can't give a definite diagnosis.

First he needs a warmer tank, you said you're getting a heater soon so that's good. You should also be doing water changes weekly, not every 2-3 months. Fish and fish food release a lot of invisible toxins into their water that build up fast. Poor water quality then makes them susceptible to disease.

The best treatment right now would be to do daily water changes, roughly 50% should be good. You can also try adding 1tsp of aquarium salt per gallon.

EDIT: Taylor beat me to it!
 
#6 ·
2 -3 MONTHS? :shock:

A 5 Gallon tank NEEDS to be changed at least once per two weeks with partial waterchanges in between. From the looks of it, your betta has Ich, caused by dirty water conditions. I would immediately take your betta out of the tank and place it in a hospital container, with a heater at around 82 degrees. From there, a daily waterchange is a MUST if you want him to recover.

Edit: Taylor beat me too!
 
#8 · (Edited)
Im so glad I joined this forum. I've grown quite attached to my betta in the 4 years I've had him. I will try and get those things as soon as possible. Would ich have to do with him being lethargic?

Also, what wattage heater should I get for a 5 gallon tank? Petsmart seems to only sell 10 watts and up online. Maybe they have more in the store.
 
#9 ·
You'll probably want a 25w. 10w are only for up to 2.5 gallons. You'll also want it to be adjustable and submersible. It will tell you all of this on the front of the package.

Most illnesses will make your fish lethargic, as will poor water quality and low temperatures.
 
#10 ·
If you haven't changed your water in a couple of months I would be careful changing out too much at a time and causing a nitrate and/or pH shock...especially with the pleco-and what type and how big is the pleco? regardless, the pleco really needs to be rehomed to a 20gal if it is a bushynose type and a common type to 125gal or bigger and I would not use any aquarium salt with the pleco or most medications for that matter-some pleco can be really sensitive.

Do you have any water pram readings? If the nitrate is over 60ppm I would make small percent daily water changes to start and increase by 10% every 3 days with gravel vacuum every 3rd day until you get to 50% and then daily 50% with deep vacuum and if it is Ich you can manually remove it with the vacuum...careful raising the temp up too fast with compromised fish like this-especially if your tank has high nitrate-since high nitrate can affect the immune response and you could end up with columnaris or dead fish...
 
#11 ·
The pleco is small right now. I know it will need to be rehomed. I plan on getting a bigger aquarium.


I don't have anything to get any readings from the water. What do I need to get the readings??

I'm going to get a heater tonight but you say not to use the salt with my pleco in there so should I not get the aquarium salt? I'll have to get a vacuum as well.
 
#12 ·
QT the Betta and use the aquarium salt 1tsp/gal along with daily water changes or just do the two cup method for Ich..if that is what he has-I can't tell by the pics (I have an old computer and pic don't show well for me)
What does the pleco look like any white spots or Ich on it? do you know what kind it is? it look like the common type and can sometimes tolerate small amounts of salt when added slow-but he could also be the reason for the scar looking thing on the Betta...hard to say....

I would go ahead and get the salt, heater, thermometer and vacuum so you can make the proper water changes regardless of what is wrong.....don't raise the water temp too fast

For water prams you need a master test kit for: ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH
 
#13 ·
As for heaters, I have a 25 watt in my 2.5, and it's doing fine! I think 50 watts or less would be ok, I saw someone on the forum using a 50 watt in a 2.5, although I really wouldn't advise it.

You have a 5 gallon, so I think anything 50 watts or less would be ok...
 
#14 ·
No I haven't noticed any ich on the pleco. I think the pleco is a common one. They didn't tell me at the store but from the looks of him thats what he looks like to me.

I will try and QT my betta but I threw away the other tank =( I'll have to get another small one.

Do they sell the test kits at petsmart or petco?

Oh I felt the water of the tank expecting it to be room temp, but its actually warm. Probably from the light. Im glad it wasn't cold though. Im still going to get all the necessary stuff.
 
#15 ·
Something I've done in larger community tanks (I used to keep 20 gal communities but I've never tried this in a 5 gal) is to get a large 1-2 gallon plastic container, I think Ziploc makes them as well as a few other companies, and float it in the larger tank. Attatch the container to the side of the tank with a clothes pin, tape, string, anything that holds the container still and doesn't let the water outside the bin mix with the water inside.

Doing this will let the container stay heated without needing an extra tank/heater etc. It isn't exactly perfect or ideal but in a make-do situation it can work.
 
#17 ·
Start with what OldFishLady suggested. Medications are best saved for extreme cases since they can cause long term damage to your fish. More often than not water changes and salt will fix the problem. However, having the medications on hand is a good idea.

As for how long? As long as it takes. The physical symptoms should go away after a few days but it is always best to treat for a little longer to make sure the fish doesn't get sick again. Although if you do treat with salt you should stop using salt by the 10th day.
 
#18 ·
It depends on how bad the ich is. If you do frequent water changes and clean the bottom of the quarentine tank daily as well as keeping him heated and dosed with salt, it should die off relatively quickly. Once he's better, if you keep up with proper water changes, he should stay better as well.

Personally, I would go for aquarium salt because it's useful for a lot of different things as well, but I'm also always afraid that something could go wrong with actual medicines and dosing.
 
#19 · (Edited)
I like aquarium salt as well, it works for a bunch of different illnesses! :) But I keep medicine around just in case :)

I have used Walmart's QuickCure if you want to get it as backup. Use the tetra dosage though! :)

I wouldn't trust that Ick Guard you linked, I don't see how you could kill Ich without raising the water temperature while not harming your fish. It would have to damage the fish's slime coat or something crazy... and Ich cannot be killed while attached to the fish. You have to raise the temperature to make it unattached...

This is the one I used: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Aquarium-...ozoan-Parasites-Quick-Cure-.75-fl-oz/10313376

I would still try to treat with salt first, and only use this if he doesn't show any signs of improvement.

QuickCure is pretty hardcore stuff, it will kill EVERYTHING in your tank and dye your tank temporarily blue... I only used it for 3 days since it's so strong.
 
#21 ·
There technically is not quick cure. The aquarium salt and heat will kill the adult ich and help heal wounds, as will the medicine. For both you'll need to do frequent 100% water changes with gravel scrubbing to get the ich that has fallen off of Red (but could still be alive) out of the tank, and for both you're going to have to wait for the ich to die. For both you're going to want to continue treatment about three days after there are no signs of ich on your fish just to make sure you kill off the non adult stages as well.

:) Hopefully the treatment will go quickly and problem free for you
 
#22 ·
You're definitely right jkfish, I am really not sure why it's called QuickCure, because after I used the medicine for three days, I still had to keep the temperature up and use salt for several days afterward and still had to do the frequent water changes for about a week.

So it's not exactly the QuickCure it claims, but you can't use it for more than 3 days according to the instructions. I guess it's that strong or dangerous?? Not really sure :p

But yeah, jk is right, there's no true quick cure for Ich. Sorry if I gave the wrong impression :/
 
#23 ·
You didn't give the wrong impression. =) It's just the name of the brand.

Soooo, I was checking out my pleco more closely and he DOES have ich on him. =( I think he's the one who brought it to my tank! I just got him recently and NOW I have this parasite. UGH!

I got a new 5 gal tank, aquarium salt, a heater, new filters (needed replacements) and a thermometer...then I ran out of money...lol I will have to clean out everything tomorrow morning as its kind of late now and I couldn't bring the aquarium in the house yet.

How should I treat my pleco since he has it as well? I only bought one heater. Im thinking of taking the pleco back, since I think it might have had this parasite and brought it to my tank. If its too difficult to treat the pleco I might just do that. I would at least like to know how to treat him though. I like that little guy. (yes I know hes going to get huge)
 
#24 ·
I think you can treat pelcos the same way as you can treat your betta, but he might be sensitive to salt, so you should research that, and also wait for others to give more info. Don't take my word

It's possible your pleco didn't bring the ich, it can come with stress, too cold water, etc, though your pelco probably brought it to the tank
 
#26 ·
To be effective it is important to manually remove the parasites from the tank after they fall off the fish and this is best done with a vacuum.....you can however, remove all the substrate and then make 100% daily water changes or better yet and easier...put the Betta in a small container and float him in the heated tank for the duration of the treatment making 100% daily water changes with aquarium salt 1tsp/gal for 3 days past the last day you could see the parasite on the fish.......while still making 50-75% water changes on the main tank...the parasite should die within 48 hours of not having a host, however, now days we have super bug from over use and wrong dosage of both salt and some medication and the parasite has been known to go dormant or un-affected by treatment...this is why QT new fish and keeping our fish healthy to start so that their immune response can fights these things off without any interaction from us....
 
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