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I do not know what's wrong. Please help

1K views 21 replies 5 participants last post by  coffeelovinchick 
#1 ·
My son has a blue Delta tail betta. He named him Dinoco Blue from the Cars movie. He has had the fish for about 4 months now. Dinoco Blue has always been active and swims a lot around his tank. He had been in a small Betta bowl, about a quart or so, maybe slightly larger. My 2 daughters each have African Dwarf frogs and they were in a separate full ecosystem cube. My son dumped a bunch of food into the frog cube and it required extensive cleaning which in turn meant separating two different kinds of rocks after they were mixed. That took about 4 hours. After deciding that I was not going through that again I decided to move them into a larger (5 gallon) filtered/heated tank. After talking to the pet store people, they told me I could put the betta with the frogs since the betta would not attack them. After getting the tank ready on Saturday night, letting it sit more than 24 hours all day Sunday, we moved the betta and frogs into the 5 gallon tank yesterday afternoon. They were all ecstatic. The frogs were swimming like olympians and the betta was darting all over. They all seemed so happy to have so much room to roam. Last night I noticed the betta laying on the bottom of the tank. No idea what else to do, I checked the water. All the levels were fine. Nothing was too low or too high. Nothing was in a danger zone. The water was ok. This morning, half expecting my son's betta to be dead, we checked on him before the kids woke up and he was still laying in the bottom of the tank, breathing, but barely moving. The water was cloudy, when last night it was crystal clear. Sometimes he is on his side, sometimes right side up, and other times upside down. I went to the pet store this morning and asked them what the problem is and what I can do to keep my son's fish from dying. The lady told me it was likely ammonia from it being a new tank and there is just not enough good bacteria in there yet. She told me to change out the water again and put in some Betta Ultimate water conditioner in it to make sure there is no ammonia or chlorine in it which the test strips don't test for. I did what she said as soon as we got back home. But he is still laying in the bottom of the tank. He does swim around a little, but he seems very weak. He got too close to the filter intake and it looked like he was suctioned to it. I turned the filter off and he sank to the bottom. He is still mainly laying on the bottom either on his side, upside down, or vertical. But from time to time now he is swimming a little. Not long, but a little. What is going on? Is Dinoco Blue going to die? Is there something else I can do for him? I really don't want to see a sad little boy the day before his 4th birthday crying over his dead fishy. Someone please help me save his friend.
 
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#4 · (Edited)
If you read the link, yes they were. It has everything you need to know about caring for ADF :eek:

ADF require 3 gallons minimum for one frog.

It's also a bad idea to put them together since the bettas and ADF will mostly likely attack each other in such a small tank.
when ADFs are kept with Bettas there are stories of either the ADF having his eyes and toes nipped and even legs broken by a feisty Betta, and on the other hand, there are stories of ADF's grabbing a Betta's tail and hanging on causing stress and injury to the fish.
 
#6 ·
When you introduced them, the 'excitement' was probably something along the lines of being stressed. Once you separate them he should perk up. Are his fins torn or ragged looking?
 
#9 ·
The problem with pet stores if they are in it to make money. It's rare you find a good meaning store worker who will give you good advice, but even then, you need to check and double check every piece of information you get. Betta need 2.5 gallons for a single fish, and more is better; That is the minimum. And while I have never kept an ADF I know they need about the same, maybe more. So 5 gallons is great for your betta fish by himself, or a frog, but not all 3. The ideal setup would be 2 frogs in a 10 gallon and the betta in the 5 gallon, but sometimes ideal isn't always attainable, huh?

I would move the fish back into his old home or, if the ecosystem cube is larger, into it. Make sure it is clean and properly heated and the water is conditioned. Make sure he is acclimated properly. While it is ideal to let the water sit over night, in cases like this you can move a little faster. Conditioned water should be fine after an hour or two.

Now, for the fish. If this doesn't perk him up, you should fill out the following and if you can, give us a couple of pictures, and we can figure out if he has a more serious problem.

Housing
What size is your tank?
What temperature is your tank?
Does your tank have a filter?
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?
Is your tank heated?
What tank mates does your betta fish live with?

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish?
How often do you feed your betta fish?

Maintenance
How often do you perform a water change?
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change?
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change?

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity:

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed?
How has your betta fish's behavior changed?
When did you start noticing the symptoms?
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how?
Does your fish have any history of being ill?
How old is your fish (approximately)?
 
#10 ·
I moved him back into the empty eco-system. There is nothing at all in there except him and water right now. I am going to attach some pics I just took one from the top looking down on him and the other looking at the side of the cube eye-to-eye with him. Here is the info from the form you asked for:

Housing
What size is your tank? 5 gal
What temperature is your tank? 78
Does your tank have a filter? yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? no
Is your tank heated? yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? 2 AFDs

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Pellets and Frozen (thawed) brine shrimp
How often do you feed your betta fish? once every 2-3 days

Maintenance
How often do you perform a water change? weekly
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 80-90
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Water conditioner

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:?
Nitrite:0
Nitrate:0
pH:8.0
Hardness: between 800 and 1000
Alkalinity: 180

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? tail and fins look a little ragged
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? completely lethargic. little to no movement
When did you start noticing the symptoms? 22 hours ago
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? only moved back to separate tank and changed water
Does your fish have any history of being ill? no
How old is your fish (approximately)? no idea. owned for about 4 months.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Oh dear.. the poor thing..

He's not well. You'll have to work fast to help him. Lower the water if he is having trouble reaching the top. I'm sure he has fin rot. It can be caused by all kinds of things, stress, poor water conditions, an injury, so in this case it might be hard to pinpoint what caused it, but we can try to fix it and prevent it later on.

Now that he's in the smaller tank, you should dose him with Aquarium Salt. It'll have a guide based on your tank size, so you need to know how big the tank is, but 1 teaspoon of aquarium salt per gallon of water is what I use. You want to place the salt in a cup with some tank water and mix it til it's dissolved. ((I use very hot water to make sure it all dissolves fully and then wait til it was cooled to room temp before pouring it into the tank. But don't do this if you don't feel comfortable with it.)) You want to get a heater for the tank and make sure it stayed at 78 and put him in a calm, dark place.

Every day you need to change his water 100% and add salt again. Don't overlap the water. New water, new salt, every day! Don't overlap the water! New water, new salt, every day! This should last for 7-10 days but NO MORE. Don't skip a day! After the last treatment, make sure he has fresh, clean, unsalted water to swim in and change the water often.

There is the problem with him laying on his side, however....

If he's swimming upside down and on his side, or "standing up" or nose down, vertical, he could have Swim Bladder Disorder. This is a little different and harder to treat. I would start with the salt and give it 24 hours. He should be doing better, if not you'll have to get medications. The problem is, it might not be SBD, and I have my doubts because you're not feeding him enough, so he doesn't have a chance to get bloated.

You should be feeding him twice a day, 2-3 pellets at a time. A betta has a stomach about the size of his eye and you have to be careful not to over feed him. If you're going to give him bloodworms, replace his pellets for bloodworms for that feeding. Feeding him more often might perk him up more then anything else. I'd say with that feeding schedule, he's doesn't have much energy. Which means he can't fight off illness very well.
 
#13 ·
How big is that tank? If it's 2 gallons or more, it should have a heater. (Under 2 gallons is very hard to heat evenly) His body won't be able to fight the fin rot in water that's too cold. If he doesn't have a tank that's 2 gallons or more already, you might want to get one just so you can put a heater in it. But I do understand sometimes money is an issue, so if you can do nothing more then the salt, at least he'll have that, right?
 
#15 ·
If you have the money, get a larger tank. Something that small is just.. cruel.. for a betta to live in. And can't be heated.

As I said before, the 5 gallon would be perfect for the betta, and the two frogs would go well in a 10 gallon tank. You can get a 10 gallon and a heater for it while you're out, set it up for the frogs and move the betta into the 5 gallon once it's been cleaned up and after he's been treated.

You can float that tiny tank in the 5 gallon to keep him warm if nothing else. It all depends on how much money you're planning to spend, honestly.
 
#16 ·
I was just at the pet store and spoke to the man there. I explained what's going on and what you advised to do. He agreed and showed me the salt. However he said that I should put the betta back into the 5 gallon heated tank and move the frogs back to their smaller eco-system cube while I am treating the betta. He said the frogs are not as picky about space and heat for short periods of time. He said that if the betta is not perking up in a day or two then I would need to consider a larger tank for the frogs and probably keep the separate permanently. :sad:
 
#17 ·
The frogs need room. For a day or two they would be OK, but they need room. I do agree it would be easier to treat the fish in a larger tank, as it can be heated, but only if you are sure the frogs are going to be OK in the smaller tank. (You said they had been kept in a smaller tank before, right?) Personally, I have a hard time choosing and keep a lot of extra tanks and heaters around just in case.

As for separating them permanently.. Unless you plan on getting a 15 or 20 gallon tank, you'll have to separate them when the betta is better. As I said, I don't know much about ADF care, but I do know betta do better alone, and need a lot of space.

These are really things you should decide for yourself. Just do what you think is best. The important thing is keeping him warm and continuing the treatments; clean water and salt. You'll have to figure out how to go about that to keep all three of the critters happy.

I'm glad you have the salt and am crossing my fingers that everything goes well! And I think now is a good time to beg for pictures and get some names, cause pictures are awesome, and so are pet names :)
 
#20 ·
I'm so sorry.. I wish I could have helped more. I really hope your kids are alright, they tend to take these things pretty hard (Of course so do us adults)
 
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