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Goldfish and cycling...?

5K views 70 replies 11 participants last post by  Olympia 
#1 · (Edited)
I recently had the misfortune of moving back home..Anyways, My sister, who is an adult, has these 2 goldfish in a 10 gallon tank. I have tried several times to get her to get a 20G but she flat out refuses. I am NOT buying her or giving her my 20G. I am not gonna argue with people over the 10 gallon tank. Last year there were 5 goldfish :shock: she is now down to 2

What I what I want to know is about cycling. She only changes the water "when it gets dirty" which is like once every 2 months. I have a siphon so I can at least give the poor things clean water every week. The thing is...This tank has a filter that has been running for 3 years BUT she has been doing 100% water changes. I don't do filters, even when I had my 20G and 10G's (I did alot of water changes a week), so what I want to know is, with the monthly 100% changes, is the tank cycled? And if it is, does gravel siponing suck up all the bacteria on the gravel? There are like 2 small plastic plants and that's about it for decor. The bacteria live on decor and in the filter, right?

I tested their water yesterday and the ammonia was between .25-.50
Nitrites, I dont remember the number but it was on the middle of the chart and by the time i got to nitrates, she was throwing things at me screaming get out of my room.


I dont know what kind of goldies they are. They arent feeder fish, the dont have tumors growing out of their head, nor do they have bubble or telescope eyes. They are rather round and shiny with long flowing 3 pronged tails - like a veil. They are orange and white.

EDIT:

this is them like a year ago. Now their tails are like 3 inches long

 
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#2 ·
I recently had the misfortune of moving back home..Anyways, My sister, who is an adult, has these 2 goldfish in a 10 gallon tank. I have tried several times to get her to get a 20G but she flat out refuses. I am NOT buying her or giving her my 20G. I am not gonna argue with people over the 10 gallon tank. Last year there were 5 goldfish :shock: she is now down to 2

What I what I want to know is about cycling. She only changes the water "when it gets dirty" which is like once every 2 months. I have a siphon so I can at least give the poor things clean water every week. The thing is...This tank has a filter that has been running for 3 years BUT she has been doing 100% water changes. I don't do filters, even when I had my 20G and 10G's (I did alot of water changes a week), so what I want to know is, with the monthly 100% changes, is the tank cycled? And if it is, does gravel siponing suck up all the bacteria on the gravel? There are like 2 small plastic plants and that's about it for decor. The bacteria live on decor and in the filter, right?

I tested their water yesterday and the ammonia was between .25-.50
Nitrites, I dont remember the number but it was on the middle of the chart and by the time i got to nitrates, she was throwing things at me screaming get out of my room.


I dont know what kind of goldies they are. They arent feeder fish, the dont have tumors growing out of their head, nor do they have bubble or telescope eyes. They are rather round and shiny with long flowing 3 pronged tails - like a veil. They are orange and white.

EDIT:

this is them like a year ago. Now their tails are like 3 inches long

[/quote]

this is like a week ago - same fish
 
#3 ·
If she's been cleaning out the filter and gravel every time I doubt it's cycled.. Sounds like it probably gets cycled and then she cleans it.. :s If she never clean the filter there might be some BB growing in there but not enough..
Oh and also, according to what I learned in bio class siphoning gravel should have no effect on BB (considering that even after you do your dishes there's still tons of bacteria on them O__O)
Also must say, it looks like as the goldfish grew the cat shrunk haha. xD
 
#4 ·
Whether it is cycled or not will depend on what she did with the filter media when she cleaned it. Did she throw it out/scrub it?

Those poor little fish. :( Their lack of colour says to me "very stressed". They look like fantails to me (my favourites).

It's such a shame she won't listen to you! Those poor dears need 30 gallons for the two of them. :(
 
#5 ·
As far as I know, she has never done anything with the filter. I dont even know if she knows she is supposed to change the cartridge. I know for the last water change all she did was change out 50% of the water.

I have tried to get her to upgrade to at least the 20 gallon tall but she flat out refuses. It would fit on her desk but I am not so sure the desk would stand up to the weight. Its one of those cheap computer desks. Petco opened up here last week and they had the $1/gallon sale and she still refused :evil: I even told her I would buy it for her in exchange for her 10 gallon..nope. she wasnt interested.

The pic on the bottom was taken with a cell phone and the color is a bit washed out. The goldies are actually not as pale as they look but they probably arent too happy
I have a filter for a 20G would that help in any way? I know goldies are dirty fishies, part of the reason I never liked them. That and if I am getting a 30+ gallon tank, I want more then 2 fish in it.

Also, do they like decor and places to hide like bettas? or would that take up too much swimming space.
 
#7 ·
XD Poor fishies, but those picture are rather funny, the cats watching and all.
 
#8 ·
The higher rated the filter on the tank is, the better it will be. It's not going to make a difference the way an ideal environment would, but it will improve their quality of life in the only way that is within your capabilities, given her attititude.
As Olympia says, live plants would also be good. Lacefern, anacharis, duckweed and hornwort are all great ammonia absorbers (and part-time fish food).

I have two friends from work who both keep their goldfish in similar conditions. One girl has two black moores in a 15-ish gallon with no filter, and the other has a fantail and a comet (used to be two comets) in a 5-ish gallon. I bought the 5 gallon a filter, some Prime and some Stability, and will hopefully be taking the comet away to put in our pond when it is set up, and gave both girls a bunch of plants. I think it's all you can do in situations like these. :(
 
#9 ·
I actually have some good news. That tank might be cycled. Good bacteria also live in the substrate and if she hasn't been cleaning it out when she does her changes, some might be living in there.

Olympia is right. Live plants would make a huge difference. Hornwort is probably going to be your best bet as it can survive almost anywhere. I have some in a few inches of water next to a window right now. Moss balls are another good addition and they can be munched on by the goldfish.

While it's great that you want to upgrade her to a larger tank, the damage with these guys has already been done. Stunted fish usually don't grow much more once put in a larger tank. I think your best bet is to try to convince her to do more regular water changes.
 
#10 ·


I took a better pic of them... :-D No cats this time.

I put some prime in the day I did the water tests.

Can these plants live with gravel and do i need to add stuff to the water for the plants? I'll see what I can do about that.

I had a black moore when I was in college. he was in a 1 gallon with a huge snail :cry:
 
#11 ·
Hornwort can be floated or buried I believe. And it grows super fast without needing special nutrients usually.
You could make a larger portion of their diet vegetarian, I remember koimaiden saying it makes them produce less ammonia.
 
#12 ·
If the tank is having a problem with algae or has a kinda old light, growing them floating will produce the best results. Under good lighting my hornwort grows around a foot a week.

Greens are a great way to cut down on ammonia, but they will still need protein from the flakes/pellets. Ammonia is a direct result from the breakdown of proteins by the body (even our bodies produce ammonia). Ideally their meals should consist of 1 part protein to 4 parts greens/veggies. This will help reduce ammonia waste as as they wouldn't be digesting as many proteins but mostly plant matter. Shelled peas, spinach, chopped zucchini, and kale are great vegetables for them. It's also great for their digestion and will help them not munch on your plants as much.
 
#13 ·
I'll see if I can pic up some green for them tomorrow.

Well, at least she LOOKED at the 20G's but then she saw the price online and was like I am not paying $80 for a tank...:evil:

We are going shopping tomorrow, I shall drag her to petco.
 
#14 ·
Even Kijiji sometimes has cheap tanks. Or tanks you could make waterproof (minor cracks can be fixed with proper silicon), which would also be cheaper. However, I've found my area is pretty cheap and giving :lol: not sure about yours!

Good luck getting a bigger tank. I've seen comets get up to 2-3 feet in optimum conditions. Fancies get HUGE too.
 
#16 ·
:shock: Yeah, they were pretty $$$ In Alaska too. Everything is way more then it is in the rest of the USA and it would seriously make me mad when people were like.."go to walmart and get blah blah blah for $5"..YEAH RIGHT!

Anyways she agreed to it IF i get it for her Birthday gift, which is later this month. Now the problem is my mother, who has the mentality that ITS JUST A FISH, KEEP IT IN A GOLDFISH BOWL :evil:
 
#17 ·
A tiny bit on the off-topic side, but you know those bowls literally called "Goldfish Bowl" as their brand name? THOSE THINGS ARE 3 INCHES TALL AT THE MOST! And they say, "perfect for one or two goldfish!" :evil:

BTW, I'm glad you got your sister to finally get a bigger tank for those goldfish. :) I hope your mom still lets you get the tank, given her apparent mentality.
 
#21 ·
BTW, those goldfish are most likely orandas because orandas have dorsal fins and a wen. So don't worry about any tumors.

Also, since orandas are fancy goldfish (not single-tailed), they need at least the minimum 10 gallons per goldfish and at least 10x filter turnover per gallon. In your sister's case, 2x10x10=200 gph.
 
#23 ·
Powerful filters aren't that pricey, if you ask me. An AquaClear 50 that is 200 gph can be only $35 with free shipping from amazon.com. If Tiki's sis doesn't want to pay, Tiki could say that is she didn't get a better filter, her fish would die sooner. And that wouldn't sound very nice, would it? Goldfish especially need filters because they are ammonia producing machines and need the filtration to keep up with their waste.
 
#26 · (Edited)
UPDATE
I have been doing water changes every 2-3 days. They seem more active. Before they just laid on the gravel. The amount of crap that came up the 1st time i gravel siponed was disgusting. Everytime I do the water changes I get into a fight with my mother about it. She says they are fine and have lived that way for 3 years. yeah well, what about the other 3 she had in there that died?? UGH..there was a reason I lived 5000 miles away from her.

Havent gotten any live plants yet...all the ones I have seen are not actually aquatic.

can someone tell me about their behavior? I dont know about any other fish but bettas and want to know if their behavior is normal

Tiki could say that is she didn't get a better filter, her fish would die sooner. And that wouldn't sound very nice, would it?
I already tried that and got the "they lived in there for 3 years and are fine" response
 
#28 ·
I'm guessing you've tried explaining the difference between alive and thriving?
yup and she said something to the effect that they are just stupid fish :evil:
My sister is more receptive to a larger tank and more water changes (provided that I do it) but my mother is 100% against it. John droped off mine last week but god forbid I set it up...I would think 1 tank and 1 heater is better then 5 or 6 smaller tanks and 5 or 6 heaters all plugged in but she does not see it this way.
Of course this is the same woman that has 2 parakeets? in a cage the size of a 10 gallon tank and these birds have NEVER been been out of this tiny cage since she got them. All they do is squak at each other. I know nothing about birds but shouldnt they be let out at some point?

It truly amazes me how incrediby ignorant my mother is.
 
#29 ·
Not necessarily. Parakeets are notoriously untamable, and letting them out assures never getting them back in, unless you have a bird net. However, with untame birds like most parakeets, it's agreed that they should have some form of flight cage to stretch their wings, something a few feet wide on all sides. If it was something more easily tamed, like cockatiels, yes, they would enjoy and need 'out time' with their humans.

Your family sounds...infuriating.
 
#30 ·
Bomba hit the nail on the head. Those poor goldies have been severely stunted by poor water quality. As long as they aren't flipping upside down when you feed them, have fins and gills in good shape (no inflammation or red streaks), and not gasping for air, then all things considered, they're doing pretty good. Improving water quality may cause them to grow a bit, but probably not much.

I can't even imagine how filthy that tank was. Mine is filthy after a week with just 2 goldfish in a 55 gal.

I'm sorry your family is so incorrigible. The "it's just a fish" mentality is something I've been fighting for years, too. At least my family seems to get it, but some of my friends sure don't.
 
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