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Wild Species Bettas

97K views 1K replies 59 participants last post by  evilone 
#1 ·
Due to popular demand, I am creating a Wild Species thread so as not to keep clogging up Setsuna's thread in the Breeding forum :)

Who owns or has an interest in wild species? Do you have pics? Baby wild types for sale to others? Looking for breeding stock? Have questions about care? Are you simply looking for more information on these many species?

Resources

Link to IBC Species Management Program page and species index:
http://www.ibcbettas.org/smp/species/index.html

Seriously Fish species profiles (scroll down to the bottom of the page I've linked to see a full list of current species profiles for wild bettas):http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/betta-imbellis/


FAQ

Q: Do wild bettas need the same care as betta splendens?
A: Not necessarily. Many wild betta species prefer slightly cooler temperatures compared to bettas. Actual wild-caught pairs are the hardest to care for, and it's not necessarily ethical to buy them, seeing as over 56 species are identified by the IBC as in need of preservation. Wild bettas who were born and raised in hobbyist aquariums tend to be much easier to care for. Please be SURE to thoroughly research the species you are interested in before you acquire a pair.

Q: Do male wild bettas need to be separated from other fish like betta splendens?
A: Probably not. Many, if not most, wild betta species can be kept in pairs or communities. The general recommendation for most species is a heavily planted 10 gallon tank for a pair and a 30 gallon tank for a community, but this is not a hard and fast rule and breeders have successfully raised fry in smaller settings.

Q: Can wild betta species interbreed with betta splendens?
A: Some can. That is actually how metallic copper genes were introduced to betta splendens. However, because of the vast global spread of betta splendens and the shrinking natural habitat of many wild betta species, interbreeding is not seen as a responsible thing to do. There may come a day soon when the only populations of wild species exist in the hands of aquarists, and maintaining a pure gene pool is needed right now to boost numbers.

Q: Do wild betta species breed the same way as betta splendens?
A: Some of the more closely related species like betta imbellis are bubble nesters just like betta splendens, although the parents don't need to be separate from their fry. Other species are mouthbrooders (the males carry the fertilized eggs in their mouths until the fry hatch).

Q: Aren't wild bettas dull and uninteresting?
A: Not at all! Of course the aesthetic in wild betta species is their natural beauty, which is different from what many betta keepers may be used to. Betta splendens are the yin (artificially selected for exaggerated traits and bright colors) to the wild betta species yang (naturally evolved beauty). This isn't to say there are only muddy colors going on here. This is just a sampling of different species:


Source: IBC species index


Source: IBC species index



Source: IBC species index


And some Youtube videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSV3nEbCVqE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5yg8Spbiw0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyEHk-A0F7M
 
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#927 ·
Well I know I said he ate the eggs, but I realise that perhaps the fry had hatched and I couldn't see them, as my stiktos male has a small number of fry in a nest he managed to rebuild.

Talk about a good father though considering I tipped him out of his film canister, tipped all the nest out and poked it a few times with my finger to see if I couldn't find any eggs.

No wonder he was in a panic and not leaving the nest site.
 
#929 ·
He was probably like "Hey mum come see my... OH MY GOD!!! NOOO!! WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU DOING YOU CRAZY WOMAN?!!"

The fry are so tiny. Going to try and catch mum so she can't gobble anyone up. I think the male should be alright to leave in with them as he isn't freaking out or anything.
 
#932 ·
I think more members have them now than when the thread was started. It is good to see them becoming more popular.

Hm, I can't tell if my stiktos female is trying to spawn with my male again or is thinking of eating the fry he is tending to. She was showing vertical barring and a prominent eggspot so I'm not really sure. It's just annoying she is so skittish because I can't separate her without disturbing the male and the nesting site.
 
#934 ·
Glad to see your stiktos being such a good daddy and cohabitating nicely so far.

So far my bad luck streak has ended at least for the moment. So I feel like I am back on track.
So since my last update, my two male albimarginatas released into a planted "empty" 10 gallon tank. This was the first time I have kept any fry in a tank that was not "bare" so it basically was a test to see how the fry fare. I put the males back in the main tank about 2 weeks ago when I added a new male. Making my numbers 3M/2F F1 betta alibmarginatas for my breeding group. At this moment, I have my dominant male holding for about a week or so. I recently separated him into a breeding box for him to relax from the other males until he releases. I am hoping to see some spawning action from one of the other males soon.

Picta male has held another spawn since my last post and I just moved them to the growout tank the other day. I guess I have about 40 tiny fry right now. The last batch that he released in the main tank all got eaten which is not such a bad thing since it gave me a break for one spawn. That was just enough time to get the older picta juvies off to their new home which opened the growout up for the new fry.

The simplex pair I had never really got comfortable with each other again. I sent them to a friend that has another pair to see if they would work out better being in a group setting again.

I have gotten a pair of betta ocellata from my close friend which are siblings to the trio I had previously. They are very large but are like puppy dogs. LOVE these guys. The male was holding when my friend shipped him and he was still holding when I received him which was really cool. He proceeded to release a load of fry in the shipping bag while I was temp acclimating him to the tank. Once I separated them from him, I ended up with at the very least 120 fry. Was not expecting something like that. I put them in the 10 gallon that has the two spawns of albimarginata fry in there already (although I have only seen 2 at any given time). The male spawned again with the female within 3 days of being in the tank which he ended up swallowing. (thankfully LOL). He is currently holding for about a week now. I have put him in the breeding net at the moment to release when the time comes. The pair is bonded so the female is really ticked at me right now and gives me evil looks whenever I come to the tank.

The last of my new news is I have acquired a juvie male betta simorum. Very interesting big bubblenester. He is my first bubblenester so this will be interesting once I get him a lady.

I will post some pics a bit later since I have made this post SO long already trying to get caught up.
 
#935 ·
Ok so earlier I promised pics so I am going to pic/video spam for a little bit. :D

Video of the Betta Ocellata tank
http://s1184.photobucket.com/user/npatten/media/MAH01074_zpsc1ed6f9f.mp4.html

Video of the Betta Albimarginata tank
http://youtu.be/4aZ4F-0c-is

Ocellata Fry
http://youtu.be/c4b-6cZkQ1s

Male Ocellata holding


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2 week old Ocellata fry


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Betta Simorum


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Uploaded with ImageShack.us

My dominant male albi and the newest male deciding who is boss


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My 3rd and smallest male albi


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Albi fry/juvies (never know when to change over)


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#937 ·
Looks like your ocellata male has quite the mouthful. Funny you mention about your pair being bonded. My unimaculata pair seem very attached to each other. The female is like the male's shadow and I always see them together. Your ocellata needs to come give my unimaculata male lessons on how to be a good mouthbrooder.



Here's my fish rack set-up as it currently stands. Top shelf houses my persephone, rutilans sp. cf. green and uberis. The second shelf houses my stiktos and spare males, and my bottom shelf houses my main burdigala group, my unimaculata and four more burdigala sub-adults.

I am hoping to get a pair of hendra for one of the empty tanks on the second shelf and a pair/trio/group of something like coccina or brownorum for the other.

I also want to get three 90cm lights to run over each shelf so I can grow more plants.

Also it's sad about the habitat destruction of many of these species. I believe my persephone are critically endangered and found in only a couple of localities. It's salt pans that have taken over much of the mahachai habitat isn't it?
 
#938 ·
that, filling in the swamps for factories, guppies, and I can't remember the name of the plant that has invaded and is causing issues in that habitat.

I posted the status and image that went with it over on my journal.

I really like the persephone, I wonder how hard they are to hunt down over here...
 
#939 ·
I know a woman called Amelia has persephone (she's on the IBC SMP Facebook page). She did sell a reverse trio so not sure if she still has any others for sale. Maybe just males.

My persephone males are being very naughty and so I may have to sell a few on. Unfortunately it seems like no one ever has any interest in purchasing wilds unless you offer them a breeding pair.

I think one of their localities got a highway put through it.
 
#941 ·
So I still don't have my betta pugnax yet. I had to craigslist deals for tanks fall through at the last minute. I finally got so frustrated with the whole thing, I ordered a custom made 90 gallon long tank XD The thing is going to be massive, fortunately I saved space for a tank that big in my bedroom when I was re-arranging the furniture (yes, my new bedroom is massive, I think the dimensions are 14' x 12'). Hopefully I can have it here and set up within 2 weeks. Also I don't have to mess around with figuring out if the pugs will be ok in a smaller tank. I'm really excited about keeping such a large fish species. I'm still looking for anyone who has firsthand experience with them. They are not one of the more popular species due to how large they can grow. But I think they're beautiful.

The ocellata males are both holding now. Last time was another false start, but this time one has been holding for 5 days. Usually they either swallow withing the first week or hold til the end, so we're in the "watch and wait" period. It has been rainy for several days which is good; my fish are very responsive to changes in the weather patterns and storms always initiate spawning and I also think more rain makes the males hold better. Something to do with mimicking the monsoon season, I think. Both females are looking slender again so the males are probably holding at least 20-30 eggs each. Of those, I expect at least 10 fry from each male to hatch. I'm probably underestimating. Fortunately I have the other double 20 long tank stand ready to be set up. I'm reserving one tank for the new fry, one tank for the juvies, and one tank for the adults. I'll have an additional tank free for juvies who start to get too big and need more space. After the last spawning experience, I am planning to move the males to the newborn tank right before they release so there will be no netting of tiny fry. It's just so stressful for the fish, and me, to do things that way. And my experience of accidentally crushing a fry last time still makes me feel guilty.

I have a brand new batch of brine shrimp eggs also. I will order some mircoworms if the males reach a week of holding.
 
#942 ·
I have absolutely no experience with this complex, but do Betta pugnax actually get that big? Seriouslyfish is saying 7cm and the IBC page is saying 12cm total length which was only the size of my Betta ideii.

Only the Wikipedia page seems to be giving a massive figure of 30cm total length.

Just curious as I know Betta pi are a big-bodied fish even if the information on them suggests otherwise.
 
#943 ·
LOL LBF this ocellata male has held quite a few times in the past. My friend actually has fry from the spawn before she sent him to me growing out. Supposedly this pair will spawn all the time but the male won't hold full term every time especially since the hoss of a female that is his mate will bug him to spawn again around the week time. They are in luv. LOL

Skye -- I simply love the colors of the albimarginata which is why they are one of my all time favorite wild to keep. I am working on a trade to get some channoides sometime hopefully by the end of the year since I love both of these unique species.

Babystars -- I have kept pugnax before. I kept a group of 11 from early juvie age until almost breeding age before I had to rehome the majority of the juvies since I did not have the space to keep them. My remaining pair I never did get a chance to breed them though before I lost them in a heater malfunction along with my mac pair and a single female ocellata. In my experience they were beautiful fish but bullies. They were probably the worst to pick on each other of all my mouthbrooding bettas. Since they do get so large and they are bullies I think a tank the size of the one you are going to have for them will be excellent. Any other fish put in with them should be able to defend itself accordingly. BN plecos are good. Otos and farowella "twig cats" are not considering how docile natured they are. Just like all wilds they are big jumpers and since they are large fish, they can jump quite a distance very easily.
Good luck with your ocellatas. I love that species! Be aware that the spawns can be quite large which I didn't know until this male released when I received him. The spawn gave me at least 120 fry. Kinda hope he doesn't have that many every time he spawns. LOL
 
#951 ·
Babystars -- I have kept pugnax before. I kept a group of 11 from early juvie age until almost breeding age before I had to rehome the majority of the juvies since I did not have the space to keep them. My remaining pair I never did get a chance to breed them though before I lost them in a heater malfunction along with my mac pair and a single female ocellata. In my experience they were beautiful fish but bullies. They were probably the worst to pick on each other of all my mouthbrooding bettas. Since they do get so large and they are bullies I think a tank the size of the one you are going to have for them will be excellent. Any other fish put in with them should be able to defend itself accordingly. BN plecos are good. Otos and farowella "twig cats" are not considering how docile natured they are. Just like all wilds they are big jumpers and since they are large fish, they can jump quite a distance very easily.
Good luck with your ocellatas. I love that species! Be aware that the spawns can be quite large which I didn't know until this male released when I received him. The spawn gave me at least 120 fry. Kinda hope he doesn't have that many every time he spawns. LOL
Thanks for the info! The batch of pugs I'm getting have lived together their whole lives, and the tank will be a heavily planted (well, eventually) NPT with lots of added hiding spots and nooks and crannies. So everyone should be able to escape and hide as needed. I do not plan to have any other fish species in the tank, I figure I'd rather not terrorize any poor tankmates. The seller warned me about them being jumpy when they get excited, but I'm used to rescuing jumpers. I've got that down to a science XD The tank will have its own hinged glass cover but I will be taping the back anywhere there's a space for cords coming out, that has worked well in the past.

And WOW to your ocellata spawn :shock: My males are still quite young (they will be a year old in December) so I think that's probably why I haven't had a huge spawn yet.
 
#950 ·
From what I've been reading, pugnax this size have only been found in the wild, and are probably very old after having lived in VERY large ponds for 10 years or so. They tend not to get this big in captivity, they usually top out at 6 inches. Possibly for the same reason goldfish grow massive in big ponds but not so large in tanks.

Sorry to hear about your unimacs, sounds like he was just about to release the fry :( Females in this complex really can be jerks when they get in the mood to be. They are more territorial than the males (at least captive-bred males anyway).

I have no idea where my other male ocellata is hiding. I haven't seen him for 3 days :p The first one to start holding swam right up to say hi today to show off his puffy cheeks. It must be the slightly smaller male that I can't find, he is always more reserved and protective when holding. He takes his job very seriously.
 
#946 ·
Ah okay. That sounds like a more reasonable size.

Haha I still will never understand the popularity of mouthbrooders. My unimaculata male annoys the hell out of me every single time he spawns. At least now I know he has some fry because I saw him spit one out yesterday when he tried to eat a pellet. His female has been bossing him around so she is going to get put in a time out box if she doesn't knock it off.

At least with bubblenesters I don't have to wait days and days for them to disappoint me by eating the eggs and fry.
 
#947 ·
... and my unimaculata male has swallowed his fry overnight.

I heard some splashing around last night so I don't know if he freaked out or the female was stressing him out with her aggression. Now she's about 3/4s of his size she seems to have developed quite the dominant streak. He is such a docile male so I feel a bit sorry for him being so henpecked.
 
#949 ·
Yeah was quite disappointed to say the least. Especially since this time I saw some a fry.

I think my uberis pair are going to spawn soon. I don't know what happens to the eggs/fry in that tank. They spawn quite frequently and I see eggs and fry and yet when I tore the tank down recently there was no other fish but those two.
 
#952 ·
Yeah that sounds like a great plan. LOL They did have some really cool personalities though so they are fun to watch even though they are bullies.

I believe that the ocellatas I have are around 2 yr old which may be why they had such a large spawn. :/

How are your albis doing? Or do you still have them?
 
#953 ·
Nope. One of the females died suddenly about 6 months after I got them and a little while after that I gave the remaining trio away to someone who doesn't care if they never breed. They all had a terrible habit of playing with/eating/abandoning eggs. Which is fine for some, but I found it frustrating. They were fun little fish though (a great intro to mouthbrooders) and I'd like to have more some day. Mine just had zero parenting instincts.
 
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