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Crazy Discoloration. She's almost dead! *Pics included!*

3K views 38 replies 8 participants last post by  ANHEL123 
#1 · (Edited)
Crazy Discoloration. She's almost dead! *PICS INCLUDED*

Velvet seemed like the closest one, so I have tried Api general cure. If anything she has gotten completely worse not better. Her treatment is almost over and it hasn't seem to done anything. She went from barely eating two pellets a day, to one, to now at this exact moment, none. She has loss of coloring in the middle in a streak down her body (and now all along her bottom side too. Her fins have also seemed to be affected and look like they have small slight rust coloring.

She will lay the bottom half of her body flat on the gravel, and keep her front propped up. She will stay near the bottom and hardly come up for food. Her mouth is propped open a lot too. I started noticing symptoms FOUR MONTHS ago. (but I didn't realize how bad it was until recently. I thought she was just stressed or bored). I'm surprised it hasn't killed her yet. I'm thinking something internal like bacterial which is why I ordered Pimafix and Melafix now. They may not get here in time. She looks like she is on her last fins :(

I feel like it's my fault somehow, and I feel bad :( The only other thing I thought it could be was due to me occasionally petting her in her tank. I it may have affected her slime coat, I don't know.




Housing
What size is your tank?
--- 5 gallon
What temperature is your tank?
--- Not sure, but I do use a 5 gallon heater
Does your tank have a filter?
--- No
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?
---No
Is your tank heated?
--- yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with?
--- None

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish?
--Top Fin pellets
How often do you feed your betta fish?
--- Twice a day

Maintenance
How often do you perform a water change?
--Once a week
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change?
--- 75%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change?
--- Somtimes conditioner depending on water type

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:don't know.
Nitrite:0
Nitrate:0
pH:7
Hardness:180 (hard)
Alkalinity: Don't know

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed?
----She has a brown discoloring on her scales. Her fins seem to show a slight color of a metalish coloring. ;/
How has your betta fish's behavior changed?
---- She is lethargic. She rests her bottom half of her body flat on the gravel, and keeps her front side up. She only moves to eat, and once she eats she darts back down quickly, stays at the bottom.
When did you start noticing the symptoms?
---- 4 months ago..... I'm wondering what on earth it is, as it hasn't killed her yet.
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how?
--- NO. I went to petsmart, and the guy couldn't tell me anything except giving me an aquarium test kit.
Does your fish have any history of being ill?
--- No....but she has been like this for a long while.
How old is your fish (approximately)?
---- 1 1/2 years old.







As you can see, I tried to throw in a few food flakes, but she wouldn't eat.
 
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#2 ·
With Velvet, you'll need to get a medication specifically for Velvet. You'll also need to make sure her tank is 78 or higher (get a thermometer, for all you know that heater is only keeping the tank at 70, and that is WAY too cold for a Betta and perfect breeding ground for Velvet). Then you will need to keep her in the dark. Velvet is a photosensitive parasite that lives in the water all the time. The heat will speed up the life cycle of the parasite on the fish, causing them to drop off. The dark and will keep them from reproducing, and the medication will definitely help that as well.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Thank you for your response. Didin't I say I have basically already treated in case it was velvet with Api General Cure? (it doesn't mention anything about keeping the tank in the dark on the descritpion, but for the record she doesn't get a lot of sunlight as there is a curtain behind her and I keep the light off in my room a lot.) She's on the few last days of treatment and hasn't even looked a wink better. I had to take her out of the tank though because she can barely even make it up for air. It started getting way worse when I started the treatement. Before I started she would eat two pellets, now she won't eat anything.

I honestly can't see how it would be parastic. She DOESN"T live with anyone else. She has been fine for the first year of her life. I tried it because I didn't know what it could be based on the symptoms I researched. I spent hours looking up different betta diseases. Velvet didn't seem to match but it was the closest thing I determined. Now I feel somewhat stupid that I didn't try something for internal bacterial infections first that might have been the problem. Like I said, I have anti bacterials on the way. I had to try and order quick online because I can't drive yet to the pet store by myself. I have a feeling they won't make it in time.

Honestly, the affected area looks like it almost has dropsy. The rest of her scales look fine...but on the affected area...they look a bit "off." *shudder* it makes me itch and feel gross just thinking about it. Poor dear.

I'm hoping someone could tell me what it could be based on the pics?
 
#4 ·
Velvet naturally lives in the water all the time, your fish doesn't have to be with another fish to get it. If that's what she has, she didn't get it from someone else. General cures don't always do well with Velvet, you need to get one that says it's specifically for Velvet. Her coloration matches what is normally seen with Velvet, but she could have that as a result of a compromised immune system because something bigger is going on. (Velvet will can become rampant if your fish is already sick with something else.
She also looks like she's either extremely constipated, has become eggbound or has a tumor. The side that is sticking out seems to be making her spine bend as well. If it's a tumor or eggbound, there's not really much you can do about that. If it's constipation, you can use espsom salts to reduce the swelling (that will help with other reasons for bloating as well.) If it's internal parasites (could be from your water source or her food source), then you'll need to get a parasitic medicine to get rid of those.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Thank you for your repsonse.. General Cure is an anti parasitic medication which is what I have been using. It says it treats velvet....so I'm not exactly understanding why you are saying it doesn't do so well? It's not "solely" for velvet but it's an anti parastic that says it works against velvet. I'm also not understanding how you are saying velvet is always present. Velvet is a disease caused by parasites. Are you saying there are always parasites feeding on my fish? *shudders* http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=10850833
 
#8 ·
This isn't velvet... This is worse.

I personally think this is a bacterial infection, but I can't identify it for sure. I would be treating with kanaplex (get some ASAP, usually you must order online), it is a good antibiotic that is also relatively safe. Keep the water temperature at 76 degrees.

Definatly try to get LittleBlueFishlets or Sakura8 on here... They know their stuff.
 
#9 ·
I have to agree with matt - its not velvet. Velvet is an external parasite and you sould be able to see the gold/pollen like effect of it in the picture and I am not seeing it. Although what it is, I can't say.

It could be a bad internal bacterial infection or bad case of internal parasites or something else.

General cure is for external parasites but there are better medications out there to fight it. Anyways, I really dont think he has velvet anyways.

have you noticed the poop laately? has it been the normal brownish cinnamon bun looking poop or has it been more white and stringy?

I would try and hunt down Saura8 if you can get her to come back to the forums or maybe try callistra. However I havent seen them on here in a few weeks. You can also try Myates. She is pretty good with medical stuff too
 
#11 ·
have you noticed the poop laately? has it been the normal brownish cinnamon bun looking poop or has it been more white and stringy?
The last time I saw her poop it was normalish brown...but rather stringy.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Yeah. Thank you guys. I said I had feelings that it wasn't velvet. And like I said, I felt stupid for not trying to treat it with something anti bacterial first.

I'm going to try and use melafix and pimafix as an anti bacterial if she makes it, which I don't think she will (I know some people don't recommend them as they can sometimes complications) but it's what I ordered.

I think the best thing I can do is learn from this experience, have meds on hand and ready next time, as well as plan ahead. *mentally punsishes self*
 
#12 ·
Yeah. Thank you guys. I said I had feelings that it wasn't velvet. And like I said, I felt stupid for not trying to treat it with something anti bacterial first.

I'm going to try and use melafix and pimafix if she makes it, which I don't think she will (I know some people don't recommend them as they can sometimes complications) but it's what I ordered.

I think the best thing I can do is learn from this experience, have meds on hand and ready next time, as well as plan ahead. *mentally punsishes self*
Melafix and pimafix aren't going to treat this. You need something stronger like kanaplex. I believe Furan 2 (correct me if I'm wrong someone) treats gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria. So that might be something you may consider trying if you can't get kanaplex. You can get that at any aquarium store or LFS.
 
#16 · (Edited)
My brother is willing to take me to petsmart tommorow to get the stuff. I want to literally just crawl in dark corner and hide because I'm such an idiot for not having done this sooner. I have spent a lot of money on medications already and ugh....they just either don't work or don't get here soon enough.

I know exactly what is going to happen though. If she's not dead in the morning, she'll be dead when I actually bring the correct stuff back. :(
 
#17 ·
Hi 4everspirit. I'm sorry to hear about your fish. :( From the pics, it looks like she may have lymphocystis. That's what the growths on her sides and fins are. On its own, lympho is non-fatal and usually clears up on its own within a few months. However, it can cause secondary problems if one of the cysts becomes infected which is what may have happened. Because she's stopped eating, I'm concerned that the infection may have gone internal, in which case the best medication to use is also the hardest to find: Seachem Kanaplex. This med usually has to be ordered online so I'm afraid it won't make it to you in time. Another possible med to try is Maracyn II, aka minocycline. This is the only other antibiotic that will absorb through the skin/gills and reach an internal infection BUT it does have the potential to cause kidney damage that could make the symptoms worse and cause dropsy symptoms. If you'd rather not risk it, then I'd suggest treating for an external infection only using API Furan-2.

You can also add 1-3 tsps of epsom salt per gallon to her tank as well to help with any internal fluid build-up.

I hope this helps you. Good luck!
 
#19 ·
I'm not seeing these "growths" you are taking about. I haven't noticed anything layered onto her body, which is what I assume a growth would look like and do. Do you mean her brown and discolored body?

Yes, I'm going to try Maracyn two tommorow if she makes it.
 
#18 ·
Can anyone tell me if it's safe to dump the water that I put general cure in down the drain? It has a chemical known to the state of california to cause cancer. They say to use a filter and add carbon after the last dose?? I don't have a filter nor carbon...but hey if I'm going to go to petsmart tommorow, why not throw out more of my money to get some carbon or whatever is needed. If I still didn't have such things, what shoudl I do to clean the tank?

Spent over $150 dollars on this betta. Never thought it would be possible. x_X I'm not even a hobbyist.
 
#20 ·
I feel you! I spent $100 on meds for a betta I rescued. I had him a week before he died of what I suspect was columnaris. But, I tried to save him, and that is how I ended up with a stockpile of medications for future use. I would follow Sakura8's advice. Her advice has helped me save several of my sick fish in the past.

You may want to contact your local water dept. They can probably advise you on that.
 
#21 ·
Oops. I think I see where I went wrong. I mistook the food flakes for growths on the body. :shock: :oops:

In that case, disregard everything I said about treating for external bacterial infections. The problem is most likely internal so your best bet is probably the Maracyn II.
 
#23 ·
Yes. I'm glad you realized they were fish flakes I tried to get her to eat.

I have maracyn 2 ingrained in my mind. Set on getting it tommorow if she makes it. It's the worst it has been. I don't know if the general cure made her feel worse or it's the disease :( She's breathing super heavily and won't even come to the top.
 
#26 ·
I would lower the water level...but I'm not sure what to do with the water............................................... Spare tank time maybe?
 
#25 · (Edited)
Can anyone tell me if it's safe to dump the water that I put general cure in down the drain? It has a chemical known to the state of california to cause cancer. They say to use a filter and add carbon after the last dose?? I don't have a filter nor carbon...but hey if I'm going to go to petsmart tommorow, why not throw out more of my money to get some carbon or whatever is needed. If I still didn't have such things, what shoudl I do to clean the tank?
Carbon will absorb the chemicals in the water but if you don't have a filter already, I wouldn't spend the money on getting one. i have always dumped water change water down the drain, weather it is medicated or not - never really though about it before.
I always loved that warning. I'm like does it ONLY cause cancer in california?? I'm currently medicating with quick cure and the ingredients are malachite green and formalin which I beleive is some form of formeldahyde? Anyways I had to remove the dropper since it was clogged and got the crap all over my hands. I'm like - great. Im gonna get cancer and die. Oh wait. I live in New York. I am safe :p

Petco won't have anything that is useful for medicines, at least not any of the API medicines minus Betta/pima/melafix. They do have some mardel meds which is who maes maracyn and maracyn 2 but petsmart is a better place to go for medicines.

Sometimes it's really hard to say what is wrong with them. Trust me, I know that very well. I lost one guy the other day and another with the same symtoms and I have no idea what the hell is wrong with them. Plus I have another dude- Tanagora - and I swear I have medicated him for everything under the sun. The only symptoms he had were he was very skinny and his fins wouldn't unclamp. I ended up making my own anti parasite pelllets and he started to gain weight back (im guessing he had internal parasites) but it was a good 6 months or more before he finally unclamped his fins. His tail fin is still not fully unclamped. I don't think it ever will be
 
#27 · (Edited)
Yeah, I'm just concerned about the environment and stuff, especially after hearing that they have found medicines in lakes and streams and such and negatively affect the fish. So I just would rather be as careful as I can. If the carbon takes at the chemicals I should probably go to petsmart tommorow anyway to purchase some carbon (I think it comes in a form for filters, and I actually do have a filter I just really don't use it because it's a bit powerful for her) , even if she doesn't make it.

Omg when I noticed others mentioning that a lot of anti parasitic stuff had a type of formaldehyde I just threw a basket of Peace lilies (flowers) we had around into my room, just in case the stuff got into the air or something!! I don't know, but they make my room look a little nicer and it's a bit more of crisp air in my room anyway:)
 
#28 · (Edited)
I did order some pimafix and melafix online though and it's too late to cancel it, and I know you guys don't recommend that so much. I dont' want to waste it though, so any thoughts on what I should use it for?

I must say though. This girl is an amazing trooper. She has been suffering for four months and it has taken this much to bring her this far down. Like I said, I didn't realize how bad it was until just recently though :/
 
#29 ·
Pimafix and Melafix are effective for topical problems only. They can be used but with caution. Use half doses if using them to treat bettas.

The General Cure most likely didn't hurt her and it could even have helped somewhat as the main ingredient, metronidazole, can be mildly effective for anaerobic internal bacterial infections. However, General Cure is not effective to treat velvet. Velvet parasites are extremely resistant to chemical treatment so the best way to treat velvet is with high heat at 86 F and 3 tsps of aquarium salt per gallon, a very dark tank, and daily water changes to remove the velvet parasites that have fallen off the fish from the AQ salt.
 
#31 ·
Still alive!! If she can last another 7 hours I can get her started on the Maracyn 2 treatment. It probably is too late, but I figured it's still better than just sitting back and watching her life drain while I do nothing. She has an amazing will to live, but I did give her a very good life after all =3
 
#32 ·
Yay! It takes a fighting spirit to fight off a disease. Don't give up hope for her yet. I had a horse given a 3% chance, yes 3% chance, of surviving a surgery. That was in 98, and he's still alive today. Actually, he's the horse in my avatar, and that picture was taken about two years after his surgery. Good luck.
 
#34 ·
Unfortunately...she did not make it and was dead when I got home with the Maracyn 2. I am not terribly sad as I wouldn't have wanted her to suffer any longer either.

She got a serious eye infection over the period from when I left this morning, to now. *shudders* Thank you to all who gave me advice.

 
#36 ·
You can return your meds to PetSmart if needed. Or you could use it as an opportunity to start a stockpile for any future illnesses (if you plan on getting another fish).
I didn't try hard enough, but I'm okay in knowing that at least I did try.

Yeah, I plan to keep them. I want to have another betta in the future so I'm sure they'd be good to just have on hand.
 
#39 ·
sorry for your loss:( You really did a good job trying to help her. I am sure she was happy for all that time that you had her. We love our bettas but unfortunately they get sick just like any human being, so i guess if we want to have them we need to realize it ,and try to help them the best we can . And not all the time we can save them, but at least they were loved and happy, which is more than they would get in the store.
I am glad you want to rescue another betta.
This is link about disinfection. What she had is contagious and you need to disinfect the tank and everything in the tank. This is the link with tips how to disinfect the tank

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?p=2036738
And i want to add something to the disinfection instructions. It good idea to let everything sit in the sun for a few days after disinfection to neutralize the bleach. Or just let it completely dry out for a few days.

And also if you don't have the filter in the tank you can just do 100% water changes. Just make sure you acclimate the betta to the new water.
 
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