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White spots on eyes

3K views 39 replies 6 participants last post by  Sakura8 
#1 ·
Housing: planted mini bow tank
What size is your tank? 2.5 gal
What temperature is your tank? 80F
Does your tank have a filter? yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? no
Is your tank heated? yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? none

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Beta
How often do you feed your betta fish? 2 or 3 pellets twice a day

Maintenance
How often do you perform a water change? twice a week
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 50%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? water conditioner

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: don't have a nitrate test
pH: na
Hardness: na
Alkalinity: na

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? white spots on each eye
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? hasn't
When did you start noticing the symptoms? this morning
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? did a 50% water change
Does your fish have any history of being ill? no
How old is your fish (approximately)? I have had him for about 3 months

Hi. I did a quick look though the wonderful new stickies and didn't see exactly this situation. At this point, it doesn't seem to me that his eye are bulgy, but there is a white spot on each of them on the lower half. Diagnosis and treatment suggestions??? There are a lot of plants, but I can move him to a QT if necessary. Also, the heater in his tank is not adjustable, but I am in the process of testing the scale on an adjustable one and can use it if I should change the water temp for him.

Thank you for any help!

Kumi
 
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#2 ·
Can you post a picture? Maybe that will help us figure out what it is
 
#4 ·
So the dot is ON the eye, not below it or anything
 
#8 ·
Hmm. If it's not cloudy then it's not, uh, cloudy eye disease. And it's not cataracts. Stupid question for me to ask but are you sure it's not a reflection? Sorry, yes, I know, stupid question but at this point I'll ask anything 'cause this is puzzling. Do the spots move as if they might be parasites? And are the spots flat on the eye surface or do they seem like they might stick out from the eyeball a little?
 
#11 ·
Usually when you have cloudy eyes its a sign of poor water quality and high nitrates can do this too....however, your husbandry is fine.....other causes are injury, eye flukes, chlorine burns, nutrition, old age.......not really any treatments except for the eye flukes...with eye flukes usually its the pupil that turns/looks white...except for age-the others resolve on their own with some increased water changes and improved nutrition....since the Betta is otherwise acting and eating like its normal self...I would make a couple of 50% water only changes over the next couple of days for now and observe......I only use natural treatment by supporting the immune response....google eye flukes and see if this fits what you are seeing in your Betta...
 
#13 ·
Thank you to both of you! I don't have a pH test--had it tested once at a pet store and it was "fine" at the time, but I don't remember the specific number. I'll retest it--something odd could always have happened to the water. It isn't any worse this morning and might be a bit better.

I looked at the pictures of the eye fluke and it is possible that it is the early stages of that, but it seems strange that it would appear just the same in both eyes. And it's not the pupil. I also found a similar situation with somebody on here from a year or so ago. He didn't post a follow-up, but I have sent him a message to see if he has more information.

An additional oddity has to do with the details of the search engine here and on some other forums--can't search on "eye" because it is too short and/or common! I found the previous post here through google.

Kumi
 
#17 ·
Unfortunately, he's doing worse. Yesterday morning, there was a hint of grayness in his belly. I'm following the steps in Dark Moon's posts for dropsy. I moved him to a QT with epsom salt and I'm also treating him with Maracyn Two. I'm gradually turning up the heat and will increase the concentration of ES today from one teaspoon per gallon to 1.5. After I moved him, I also saw that his pectoral fins are ragged. He has not improved today. I will be surprised--and ecstatic--if he makes it, but the very nice thing is that he is not suffering at the moment. He made a very nice bubble nest in his QT yesterday. I'm afraid that part of today's tasks will be to get ready to euthanize him in case it's necessary. I had goldfish years ago and one developed dropsy and I really have no desire to watch Kenpatchi go through that.

Any treatment suggestions are welcome! About the only thing I can think of to do is to switch to a different medicine. I'll give this one another day and then if he's not better, I'll try a different one.

Kumi
 
#18 ·
comrades! my betta has the same thing, in one eye though. no other problems at all. i hope your betta gets better!
 
#20 ·
I've treated Kenpachi with epsom salts and two different antibiotics. I have a reasonable guess as to what is going on. Given that when I tried to find comparable situations all of the threads "dead ended" without saying what the resolution/conclusions were, I wanted to post what I THINK is happening. In Kenpachi's case, the white spots on the eyes are identical. Also, looking from above, you can really tell that they are just on the cornea--they aren't something inside his eye. Because of that, I think they were caused by a build up of pressure. Also, he started to develop dropsy. My guess it that the dropsy has not progressed much because of the epsom salts rather than the antibiotics. I suspect that all of this was caused by organ failure. What caused the organ failure in the first place is unknown. The water parameters were perfect when I tested them, but who knows. I will say that he is from Petsmart, sort of like getting a puppy mill dog.... However, I also don't dismiss the possibility that I introduced something to the water by accident that was toxic. In any case, there are no signs of parasites. When the dropsy seemed to be getting a little worse, I upped the epsom salt to two teaspoons per gallon and that seemed to help. I think he's comparable to a hospital patient on palliative care at the moment. He's still eating well and swimming around, but he's losing his color. As long as he seems comfortable, I'll continue as I am. When he's not eating well or having trouble swimming, I'll euthanize him.

While I am not happy about the situation, I at least don't have that frantic feeling of "if I could only figure out what to do I could save him!" The irony is that I now basically have a betta in a bowl!! I don't want to put him back in his tank because I can't count on it being a stable environment at this point. He has a "betta log" to rest in and I'll pick him up a fabric plant. I feel like I'm taking care of somebody in a rest home!

Kumi
 
#22 · (Edited)
I'm sorry to hear your boy isn't doing well but great job on the fast diagnosis. You definitely bought him some time. In this case it presented just like bacterial dropsy (cloudy eye/pop eye then gray belly) which is basically a kidney infection... It is possible that he got stressed somehow and his immune system was weakened as a result and he got infected. There really is no clear cause for dropsy.

Is he currently on Maracyn II? You can combine that with Jungle's Anti-Parasite Pellets. The Metronidazole in the pellets is best for fighting off the bacteria. I've had a lot of success with the Maracyn II, metronidazole pellets and Epsom combo. You can up the Epsom dose to as much as 3tsp/gal. Try to get him those pellets while he is still willing to eat. Once they stop eating there isn't much that you can do... Good luck.

Sakura, do you know what they active ingredients in the anti-bacterial pellets are? I've never used them before.
 
#26 ·
Is he currently on Maracyn II? You can combine that with Jungle's Anti-Parasite Pellets. The Metronidazole in the pellets is best for fighting off the bacteria. I've had a lot of success with the Maracyn II, metronidazole pellets and Epsom combo. You can up the Epsom dose to as much as 3tsp/gal. Try to get him those pellets while he is still willing to eat. Once they stop eating there isn't much that you can do... Good luck.
I switched from Marcyn II to API General Cure (or something close to that: it's downstairs and I'm upstairs). Really, just cause I thought I might as well try something else. I've looked for the pellets in two stores. Will try a third one tomorrow. Kenpachi thinks he's doing better than I do--he made a very nice bubble nest in his QT again today. I'll up the Epsom salt, too.

Actually, I will look for either of the medicated pellets. Thank you to you both for your suggestions. DarkMoon, I've been following the directions you wrote up. SO much faster than a stressed out search through old threads. Thank you for doing that.

Kumi
 
#23 ·
Sodium sulfathiazole and nitrofurazone, so definitely different than the parasite pellets. Anyway, I was hoping you could help clarify something for me, DarkMoon. You often recommend the anti-parasite pellets for cases of bacterial infections instead of the anti-bacteria pellets. Why? Just curious. My logic runs this way: parasites = parasite meds, bacteria = bacteria meds. You can see when it comes to meds I don't think outside the box much. ^_^
 
#24 · (Edited)
NP, it is a common cause of confusion! Medications aren't as clear cut as people think. Medications are often affective against multiple things. Most meds that treat bacterial infections also fight funguses and visa versa. Metronidazole (the main ingredient in anti-parasite pellets) is an effective medication for treating Dropsy. It is usually used for killing parasites but for whatever reason it has shown to be really effective against dropsy, which is a bacterial disease. It has to be given orally to be effective which is why Jungle's Anti-Parasite pellets are ideal.

The anti-parasite pellets were actually suggested to me some time back when my goldfish Nori had dropsy, so I looked into it and found that it really does work. Vets even suggest it. Nori is alive and well today and was the first fish I had that survived dropsy. Since then I've found that Maracyn II, Epsom and Metro work really well, especially when you catch it early. I don't know if the Anti-bacterial pellets will work. By all means they should since dropsy is bacterial but even the vets say to use the anti-parasite ones! I'm sorry I don't really know the physiology behind it!
 
#28 ·
I'm glad the treatment guide was helpful! I think all the Petsmarts around me carry the pellets... If you can't find them, you can call your local veterinarian. Explain your problem and they should be willing to sell you 1 or 2 Metronidazole tablets. The main ingredient in API General Cure is Metro which is good but it is most effective when taken orally (fresh water fish don't drink water like salt water fish do). If you can get oral Metro (the pellets or tablets from the vet) that would be best but API General Cure should still do something. If he is building bubble nests then he must be feeling a bit better. That's very good. Is he pineconned at all?

Sakura- Well it's definitely a pain in the butt! It's #1 on my hate list lol. Dropsy (pineconning) is the result of fluid build up. The fluid build up is a result of a Kidney infection. Cats and dogs (and people) get kidney infections too but they just pee inappropriately and feel awful until you take them to the vet. Since fish live in water, the kidneys are important for controlling fluid volumes in the body. When the kidneys don't work right the fish cannot regulate its fluids properly and they build up and put pressure on the other organs resulting in pineconning (dropsy). So, dropsy (pineconning) is a symptom; it means that the fish has a bacterial kidney infection. Epsom relieves the swelling by helping fish release water, then the anti-biotic fights the kidney infection. The only problem is that most meds only work when the kidney infection/dropsy is spotted early since usually organ damage is not reversible. Baytril injections have proved to be really affective as well but you would need a vet for that...
 
#29 ·
DarkMoon - thanks for the explanation. :) So dropsy is basically a fish sign of what would be advanced UTI in mammals if I'm understanding this right, or in other words when the fluid build-up in the UT has backed up into the kidneys. (my mother has type 1 diabetes and a kidney transplant, so her kidney is hooked up directly to her bladder and UTI are common for her)

Kumi - I'm so glad he seems to feel better and is bubblenesting again. That's great news! Yay! :-D
 
#30 ·
I'm sorry to hear that about your mom but ya, it's basically an advanced UTI that has attacked the kidneys. And they can be really stubborn... At least mammals don't have to worry about fluid build up, it just sucks in general.
 
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