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Old 04-29-2012, 04:08 PM   #81 
MrVampire181
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I knew a guy who worked at PetCo and he recommended no less than two gallons for bettas (I drilled him before revealing I was a breeder). He doesn't work there anymore but I wish more stores had employees like that.

A few breeders I used to know worked at PetsMart but were replaced by two idiots who started an argument with me saying bettas would die in bags when they're shipped. As someone who has received many bettas via USPS and seen the unpacking of massive boxes of bettas during shipments from Thailand their stupidity amazed me -_-

At WalMart I met a few employees who had salwater tanks and were pretty smart. Don't work there anymore :/

IME one good way to stop people from buying those tiny tanks is to just stand there looking at products, wait for someone to pass by, then if they make a wrong choice just walk up and talk them out of it. I've managed to point quite a few in the right direction.
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Old 04-29-2012, 04:10 PM   #82 
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Also having arguments will not get this problem solved, we do not aim to upset other members, we do not aim to annoy other members, and also if you are not interested in helping raise awareness on tanks UNDER 1gallon being unsuitable, then please do not post on this thread as it is detromental to any progress that could be made.
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Old 04-29-2012, 04:10 PM   #83 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldfishlady View Post
IMO/E-1gal is fine for long term keeping for the long fin males-provided that the proper water changes are made to maintain water quality.

You can safely heat them-I like to use the preset Tetra brand 25w heaters-this will maintain the temp in the 76-82F range more or less- depending on the room temp

Filters are optional for this species IMO/E and especially in 1gal tanks-often they can be the cause of fin damage on the long fin males...kinda like the flag in the wind effect.....

In 1-4gal unfiltered tanks-water changes of twice weekly....1-50% water only and 1-100% should maintain water quality-provided that you are not overfeeding and uneaten food is removed within a reasonable time.

In 1-4gal filtered tanks-water changes of 50% twice weekly...1-50% water only and 1-50% to include the substrate by vacuum or stir and dip method.
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Old 04-29-2012, 04:14 PM   #84 
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Originally Posted by Mo View Post
How do you not care about the quality of life they have, placing a Betta in a very dirty 2.5 gallon is not a very optimal place to live for the Betta sn it's likely to die while it would do much better in a very clean 1 gallon, water quality, cover, feeding, heated water, are all more important than tank size IMO, so saying hat the quality of life doesn't matter can backfire on you as a Betta can live in a high waste content, in maintained 2.5 gallon with non heated, water and a bad diet, by surviving, but would do much better off in a 1 gallon with there optimal requirements
I don't know why you are using the argument of dirty tanks when I suggested nothing of the sort. People that get "bigger" tanks for their fish generally are much better aware of the requirements for them and know how to keep their tanks cleaned and maintained. It's often the small bowls and 1 gallon and under tanks that end up dirty because they are "cheaper" and more easily obtainable by people that really don't care about the well being of fish and just want them as a cheap "pet" that they don't really know how to take care of.

Consider this, if one person had a 1 gallon tank and didn't clean it regularly and another person had a 5 gallon tank and didn't clean it regularly. They are both bad owners right? Yes, but at least it's "better" that the fish had a bigger environment to thrive in in the second scenario. (Also, in bigger tanks, you don't need to clean them "as often" as say, small bowls, especially if they are cycled.)

Last edited by 4everaspirit; 04-29-2012 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 04-29-2012, 04:16 PM   #85 
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I am not going to further reply to this thread as its worthless. I was not advocating dirty tanks, I was saying that a one gallon is okay....... I believe you said you don't care about the quality of life of the Betta, but edited it out......
The water volume matters much less than the quality of life which you mentioned you didn't care about before you edited the post where you stated that.

It's hard to be mature when you are stating an opinion as a fact. And saying that a betta at will do much better in a 5 gallon opposed to a one gallon. How the Betta is kept and taken care of depicts how good it will do in tanks of upwards of a gallon (minimum tank size). Is what you are saying from experience? I have done a slightly test and noticed no difference in behaviour between a Betta in a 1 gallon and one on a 16 gallon. Yes. I did use the same Betta for both parts/tank sizes of the experiment.

So you don't care about how a 1 gallon is kept at all? You dont prefer using them? I find this offensive as lots of breeders/experienced keepers/most people on this forum have atleast one 1 gallon tank in use and have a Betta thriving in it, there are also circumstances that you have to take into consideration before stating that a 1 gallon is inideal long term for a Betta as weak swimmers, and blind bettas do well in tanks of this size

Last edited by Mo; 04-29-2012 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 04-29-2012, 04:22 PM   #86 
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Originally Posted by Mo View Post
I am not going to further reply to this thread as its worthless. I was not advocating dirty tanks, I was saying that a one gallon is okay....... I believe you said you don't care about the quality of life of the Betta, but edited it out......
Okay. ._. I never said you were advocating dirty tanks, I put it out there that you were using them in your argument in defense of 1 gallon tanks. But the argument didn't really work because a tank could be dirty no matter what size of the tank.

You were mistaken. I never said I didn't care about the quality of life of the betta. (If that was true my 5 gallon tank would be really dirty right now. I do weekly cleanings with a gravel vaccum and do the water changes as suggested.) I said I didn't care how good the the tanks for a betta are maintained for under 2.5 gallons as I don't agree with keeping fish in them in general. I don't find the cleanliness to be an argument for keeping them in small tanks. (Though cleaner tanks is always good.)

It would be nice if we could all be a little more mature in our responses, it also doesn't hurt to keep an open mind to what other people say. Your opinions are certainly welcome, though they may not be right, and others may not agree with them though. That goes for both sides too. I know you said you weren't going to post anymore, so I will wish you to have a good day then.

Last edited by 4everaspirit; 04-29-2012 at 04:33 PM.
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Old 04-29-2012, 04:26 PM   #87 
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urg okay guys this thread should be closed. permanently. and any thread like it taken down. this will always become "you're wrong" and "no, YOU'RE wrong" bull argument. this is not what this site is for, to argue with each other. it's to be informed, to opinionate, and work with what you HAVE. some people can only have a 1 gallon, and I know many on here who have wonderful and healthy fish in 1 gallons. this thread has gotten so off track from what the OP was saying about SELLING bowls.

ON the real subject, if the 1 gallons didn't showcase goldfish, it'd be so much nicer. but everything nowadays is profit. good luck with a petition, but try influencing people around you without being pushy (not that you would be :) )

this thread has turned into an insult to breeders and responsible owners who yeah, may not have a 2.5 gallon or a 5 gallon or a 10 gallon... just saying... and I for one will not give this stupid controversial bull any more attention. it'll always go foul.
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Old 04-29-2012, 04:28 PM   #88 
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Double post...
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Old 04-29-2012, 04:33 PM   #89 
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Lots of different ways to keep this species correctly....so true, lots of information out there...some true, some myths and some based on viewing this awesome creature as a human with feelings and emotions.......as much as we would like it.....a fish just doesn't have the ability to thinks and feel the way we do.....their brain is not wired that way.......that said.....

By understanding the anatomy, physiology and behavior of the fish we keep can help us understand proper care to meet needs

The Betta splendens is a special fish-by that I mean-its man-made-with years of selective breeding to create long flowing colorful fins......the fins are abnormally long and heavy-nothing like what it came from and so care is going to be much different than it will be with its short fin cousin....many people forget this and with the good intention they have...end up with a sick betta with neurotic behaviors and tattered ugly fins in a short time......

Because of these abnormally long fins that can be really heavy and delicate they are kept in small containers with no water movement....as cruel as some may think this is......this is needed to maintain the long flowing fins......

Most males are placed in a small container by the time they are 2 months of age-this is to encourage fin growth and often the reason we want a Betta...the long fins......along with good nutrition and quality water in these small containers-usually by the time they are 6-8 months old-fins are nearly 80% grown and they are ready to be sold.....

Understand-this long fin male has been in a small container for nearly 8 months-it has long heavy fins-due to space it also has limited muscle mass.....Now the Betta is brought home and feeling sorry for the Betta being in such a small container we toss it in a large volume of water with a filter.......soon we start to see either tattered fins, neurotic behaviors like tail biting, glass surfing, depression...etc.......

Its not that a long heavy fin male can't be placed in a large container of water....they can......and some male can go from the temporary cup to a large tank without any issue.....but some can't...or at least right away....sometimes-some need to be moved in steps.......temporary cup to 1gal-then 2gal-5gal...etc......get the picture.......and some may never be able to keep their long fins in anything larger than a 1gal container or be able to tolerate a filter/water movement without being stressed....when stressed-this can compromise the immune response and this is when you see-Ich, fin rot, lethargy, clamp fins, hiding, poor appetite...etc......sometimes it will resolve on it own and other times it doesn't......

Think of it like......swimming with a 50 pound weight strapped on your back....once you build strength and muscle you can do it much easier....

The flag flapping in the wind......this is what happens to the long delicate fins that are used in a lot of space and water movement......until they toughen up...some do and some don't......this can be related to genetic, age, health, nutrition...etc......

This is just a few reasons why you see/hear about so many different tank size requirement for this species......

Irregardless of tank size.....a Betta can be neglected in a 10gal tank just as they can be neglected in a small tank.......this falls on the hobbyist......

To be a good keeper of fish you must first be a good keeper of water and understand how they interact.....

Bettas don't need large spaces or filters...they do need quality water of tropical temps...

Bettas don't create as much waste and ammonia as some may think...

Starting your Betta in a 1gal container without a filter making twice weekly water changes of 1-50% and 1-100% will maintain water quality, fin health, help build antibodies and a strong immune response, provided that the fish is not over feed and uneaten food is removed within a reasonable time.....

Once the Betta is doing well in the 1gal-then move it to a larger tank in steps to his tolerance or keep it in the 1gal-2gal unfiltered tank.....the longer the fins the less problems you will have by keeping them in smaller containers as long as you provide proper care and nutrition....

Yes, fish like to swim....but think back to that 50 pound weight strapped on your back and remember this is a man-made fish with special needs......if your Betta is stressed, depressed, tail biting, glass surfing, stops eating, can't hold its fins, chronic fin problems etc..... in that 5-10gal filtered tank....try a unfiltered smaller tank.......

Nutrition is often not taken into account and the cheapest food is fed......with a Betta....you need to find the very best quality of several different kinds of foods...pellets, flakes, frozen, freeze dried and live.....they don't have to be Betta specific foods....you do want to find food with the first few ingredients that are fish/seafood either whole or meal....feed small frequent meals....what one food is missing the other food may have........

Nitrogen cycle-you can't establish the nitrogen cycle with out filtration and the Betta doesn't really need filtration.....yes, filtration and the nitrogen cycle will make water change needs easier for the hobbyist...but not so much for the Betta......and due to the limited surface area in small tanks the nitrogen cycle isn't that stable anyway and you still need to make twice weekly water changes to maintain water quality.......

Live plants can be the answer provided that you have the proper lights to support the plants.....thats another chapter........

By understanding the Betta and its long heavy fins.......tank size, filtration, water quality, nutrition...etc......you can maintain those long fins many of us love and one of the reason we keep them for a very long time......

Enjoy....thats what its all about.......

Here is a link to that thread.....
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=78317
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Old 04-29-2012, 04:35 PM   #90 
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urg okay guys this thread should be closed. permanently. and any thread like it taken down. this will always become "you're wrong" and "no, YOU'RE wrong" bull argument. this is not what this site is for, to argue with each other. it's to be informed, to opinionate, and work with what you HAVE. some people can only have a 1 gallon, and I know many on here who have wonderful and healthy fish in 1 gallons. this thread has gotten so off track from what the OP was saying about SELLING bowls.
Yes please close the this thread, it would be best for everyone.
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