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Old 05-10-2012, 11:45 AM   #71 
Coppermoon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thekoimaiden View Post
Ask a breeder. No they don't. Water temp is usually a few degrees lower than room temp. That puts your water at roughly 71F. This is too cold for a betta. Most breeders keep their tanks around 80F. Betta are tropical fish and need heaters. The babies especially because it promotes healthy growth.

As for the size of the tank. We suggest you get a larger one not just for living room but to dilute wastes. When fish eat they produce ammonia which is toxic to them. In a small container of water, ammonia builds up fast and does kill fish (I see this most often with goldfish in gallon bowls). It will also dilute the hormone that babies produce to stunt growth. The water should be changed daily to prevent the buildup of this hormone.
Breeder here...babies must stay around 80*F for proper growth. I did an experiment to see the effects of warm vs cool water temps. Result, I have 3 month olds smaller then your girl, and I have 1.5 months old larger then your girl. Can you guess which were kept at at 76* and which were kept at 80*?

I keep my jarred juvies in 32 oz warm mason jars and they get water changes every day to every other day.

Using "spring" water. IS it spring water or is it RO water? I'd suggest buying 1g of RO water and use Prime in your tap water and do 1/2 - 1/2. I ONLY use Prime and Tap Water. For my spawn/growout (fry) tanks, I'll add salt for velvet/ich.

To me it looks like a female. Males will have a bit longer ventrals. I had a friend/Breeder buy one of these babies. After 3 months of proper care, the fish STILL hasn't grown. I think they are the runts of the broods and it will take them a long time, if they ever, to grow to full sized. My show Male "Little Man" (overacoppermoon.com - Boys) was the runt of a brood. He is still much smaller then his brother (now granted his brother is a week older).

Good Luck with Tiny!!! I'd keep her in a smaller tank and change her water every day. Feed 3x a day, 1 pellet at a time until she refuses to eat any more, but she is your fish. If you want to upgrade to a 1g tank that is fine, but I'd still suggest daily water changes. The most important thing to raising a baby Betta is to keep the water warm, clean and well fed).

Lori
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Old 05-10-2012, 12:00 PM   #72 
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I would never have put another betta in with the baby, especially in such a tiny unheated tank. You may wake up to a dead baby. Sorry if this derails your thread. JMHO.
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Old 05-10-2012, 12:00 PM   #73 
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^ that explains quite a bit for me. the DT i have in my avy is huge and he's in water that is 80F. i got him at 6mths old but hes already pushing 2.5-3 inches. my first betta is 3 inches for sure already given he doesnt munch on his tail too much.
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Old 05-10-2012, 12:17 PM   #74 
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Finally got through all 8 pages (as on pg 3 when I posted). Everyone that said to have you tap water tested is correct. I have city water but right across the Farm to Market road there is well water. I much prefer the well water over the HEAVILY treated city water but I'm stuck unless I move.

That "betta breeder" as they used to be called, are a PITA to clean. Big enough for 1 fish with DAILY water changes, but not 2. The fish hanging out together...not good. Having kept a sorority in a 75g with 15 girls, when they hang out together, they are sizing each other up.

Most breeders keep even adults in 32 oz mason jars. Beanies (top load Ty Beanie display cases) are just too expensive for the "average" breeder to buy. At $1.50 each, and you order 400, the shipping will raise the cost of those beanies from $600 to about $800 unless you live close enough to pick up....a little off subject sry. IF you are going to keep more then 1 female betta (sorority), then you need to get no less then a 20g (30g is better) and put 6-10 girls in there with LOTS of live plants for them to hide in.

As far as the water changes...do you drink milk that comes in a gallon jug? Keep it with the lid, bleach it out, rinse it out until you no longer smell bleach, then rinse it again and let it air dry for 24 hrs. Fill with your tap water and 3 drops of Prime (just to be sure), put the lid on it....BAM you have tomorrow's water change!!! I have almost 20 Arizona Tea jugs (my boss drinks that stuff) that I keep full ALL the time. The Tea jugs are a heavier plastic then the milk jugs...

Last edited by Coppermoon; 05-10-2012 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 05-10-2012, 12:51 PM   #75 
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Really I would think you can save some money if you returned the tiny tank (which probably costed a fortune in relation to sie) and used a larger tupper ware container. At discount stores I can get a large 1/2 gallon Jar for $3. Now if you up that to a 1 gallon jar, you can get one of those small heaters and use that. I don't know where you are, but craigslist is great when looking for tanks. I saw a listing the other day selling a 2.5 gallon bowl for $10 (or was it 15). if you can figure out a way to divide something like that, t will work out for both your fish =D.
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Old 05-10-2012, 12:57 PM   #76 
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Really I would think you can save some money if you returned the tiny tank (which probably costed a fortune in relation to sie) and used a larger tupper ware container. At discount stores I can get a large 1/2 gallon Jar for $3. Now if you up that to a 1 gallon jar, you can get one of those small heaters and use that. I don't know where you are, but craigslist is great when looking for tanks. I saw a listing the other day selling a 2.5 gallon bowl for $10 (or was it 15). if you can figure out a way to divide something like that, t will work out for both your fish =D.
Price of those Betta Keepers...I bought them because they stack...that didn't work...I had to unstack them to change water and feed...not smart on my part. Cost back in 06 was like $9.99 in Texas!!!
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Old 05-10-2012, 01:06 PM   #77 
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i want to make jars with taps. just to make life easier.... I'll keep dreaming >.>
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Old 05-10-2012, 01:28 PM   #78 
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Great advice aokashi! Definitely 100% water change everyday! Take out gravel so it's easier on you during water changes, and so your babies have more swimming space. You really do need to upgrade...with 2 bettas, I suggest a 5gallon, get an adjustable heater, set it at 80-82 degrees F.
At juvenile stage, they need room to swim, heated water, and frequent water changes of 100%...it's one of the reasons that we worry so much about the delicate babies that Petco sells.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:35 PM   #79 
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Breeders, maybe discuss breeding methods in the breeding section? :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BettaBaybee View Post
Hey, this isn't OP's thread, it's miiiine!!! LOL.....
SO, update: I decided to use tap water and Betta water conditioner. I also purchased a small beautiful blue and striped veiltail female, "Dory", and the two of them love each other and have beem swimming peacefully close to each other ever since I put them together. They seem to have really bonded, and don't separate much, which I figured. Only thing is, the more I look at Tiny, I think he is a male. So I will keep a close eye on him as he grows and if I see ANY aggressiveness toward Dory, she will get a separate apartment :) I will do a half water change every other day to every 3 days to keep ammonia down since there are 2 fishies in there now. They seem very happy and content and have perked up a lot since having company. Goes to show sometimes, even if people advise against it, you just have to try something yourself if you have a gut instinct about it. So far, SO GREAT! They are so cute together, you can tell....that....they may just be in love...... :) Thanks everyone for the help. Will post updates when I can.
I'm sorry to say, but your gut instinct was way off base. I'm not sure why you would trust a gut instinct over people's decades of research, but quite frankly, I think you are putting your fish at risk.

Firstly, your tank is tiny. Ammonia from just one fish will be building up fast enough that you should be doing at least 50% water changes every second day, and 100% water changes on the days in between. Surely you have something in your house larger than one litre - even a big mixing bowl with some clingfilm for a lid would be safer.
Another risk from the tiny space is that the bettas cannot form their own territories. Whilst this may not be a problem if they are under 3 months, at 3 months old bettas start to develop their territorial instinct and do attack each other. If Dory is still stripy, that's a bad sign - horizontal stripes are generally an indicator of stress.

Secondly, without a heater, buying a second fish was not a good idea. The first one is already too cold - why subject a second fish to that?

Thirdly, bettas, regardless of gender combinations, are not supposed to live in pairs. In the wild, males stay in one spot, away from other males, and make it their own. Females travel, alone, between the males, to mate. They do not live together. When two bettas meet, they will attempt to intimidate each other, possibly even fight, until one flees. Keeping any bettas together is unnatural. A balance can be acheived in a sorority with dense planting to mimic the natural environment, and a large number of girls (never less than four) to create a hierarchy. With two, there is no hierachy - just an agressor and a victim. It is extremely unsafe to keep two together. Even a sorority is unnatural and is a balancing act - trying to trick bettas into thinking that they are living naturally.

I strongly advise that you return Dory. If not, get two 5 gallons with heaters and filters ASAP. As has been mentioned so many times, juvenile bettas are delicate. Cold water and poor water quality in this stage of their development could give them all sorts of problems down the track. The right care is absolutely vital at all stages, but at this stage more than any.

You've been given some great advice here from people who have been keeping and studying bettas for years. Please listen to it.
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:16 PM   #80 
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Not to mention you've now doubled your amount of stunting hormone being produced in such a small space.
Has no one brought this up? Oh wait, I did way on page one. Clearly you haven't taken that into consideration. I'm sure these betta are still emitting it.
I already explained it. Now you have twice as much hormone, harming two fish, and should be doing 100% water changes twice daily, I would say, in such a tiny space.

And also, hate to be frank, but one day soon if you continue to keep them together, you will come home to one beat up and one dead, at the very best. Their fighting instincts will kick in. Females fight females, males fight males, females fight males. There's no safe combo (except 5 females in a 10 gallon tank heavily planted- and even this is a ticking time bomb and often ends badly, as Bomba mentioned). It's like roosters- they all run around together when they're cute chicks, but they will start fighting each other once they start approaching sexual maturity.
Especially in such a SMALL space. This is only increasing the pressure for them to be in control of the territory, the small patch of water they live in.

Also, please listen to this advice. These people know what they are talking about. Not listening to advice when it comes to fish leads to "learning the hard way."
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