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Old 05-14-2012, 07:00 PM   #1 
Olympia's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Non-red genotype question.

Honestly I have no plans to breed {as of yet, I still have a lot of reading to do on form, but colour is the fun stuff so I want to figure it out first!}. But I've found myself drawing punnett squares for yellow betta, which are probably my favourite solids, and I'm curious about these things. Hopefully someone has the time to answer. :D
Based on this:

My question: What does it mean by multi colour (non red geno)? Would this be any multi colour with yellow/orange?

Also, confused about the connections between yellow and orange, and red and orange.
Or is orange only related to the cambodian gene? On bettysplendens it states that orange is the NR2 gene, and only talks about it being present in Cambo lines.
If a Cambo X Orange yields 50% Cambo, 50% Orange,
And Orange X Orange yields 75% Orange, 25% Cambo,
Does this make orange dominant over cambo or the other way around? The Cambo should be carrying one orange gene. If you're still getting Cambo out of 2 Oranges then the Cambo should be dominant, but I can't seem to work that one out. Even with a Cambo carrying orange I'm still getting either 100% Orange if it's dominant, or 50/50%.
{hope that isn't too confusing, my mind is a real jumble.}

My first assumption was that orange was a codominant gene, 1 yellow gene and 1 red gene, Rr. Because this is how my artistic mind works. But I feel like I was totally out of the ball park on that. In bio you learn this stuff on mammals, but fish just seem infinitely more complicated.
I can't imagine once you start putting iridescence into the picture (why I chose the reds/yellows, seems like a simpler gene to work with).
Thanks to anyone that takes the time to unscramble that for me!

Edit: okay this is what I got:
Orange is dominant because:

-----C....... O
O ....CO.....OO
Which gives you 25% Cambodian genotype and phenotype, like bettysplendens says.. With a 50% CO genotype and 25% OO. Which gives you 75% Orange in appearance.
Is this correct??

Last edited by Olympia; 05-14-2012 at 07:04 PM.
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Old 05-14-2012, 07:20 PM   #2 
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From what I have read, Orange is in fact a mutated Red.

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Old 05-14-2012, 08:21 PM   #3 
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Yes, but Orange is now a separate gene as it is passed down from parents. I don't think it's related to red anymore?
At one point it was a freak mutation, that carried down to offspring. The chances of getting orange from red fish are very slim if I'm correct.
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:39 AM   #4 
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Does no one get what I'm asking? :/
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:42 AM   #5 
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I am not sure what you are asking, but i know the yellow genotype is "the non red gene" and is not common.

My betta is yellow!
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:44 AM   #6 
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I don't have any orange bettas, also I don't have any experience with that color, so I can't answer you.
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:14 PM   #7 
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Here's a practical compilation I made :

"Non Red" is a name they call the alleles responsible for white and yellow/orange - NR1 (white) and NR2 (yellow and orange)
Non red genos means that they do not show white/yellow/orange coloring BUT carry the alleles (these colors are highly recessive so they need a complete set of alleles/genes to physically show these colors).
For NR2 - the colors that show would probably be cambodian - clean pale body with clean red fins (multi). Some may show a more redish body.

As far as I know, Yellow and orange are mutations of extended red x NR2. So you probably can't produce those colors without starting with red and cambodian. Intensity of colors is still unconfirmed (to my knowledge) - meaning some say cross to black, others say different. You see, if you keep breeding these colors, the intensity will fade and you will end up with dull colors.

IMO, You cannot understand these genetics using the punnet square. Too many factors/genes come into play. All the needed genetic set up must be in such a way for the mutation to appear. I advise to use the punnet square to understand the direction of probabilities, but NEVER rely on it to give you definite results. The genes involved are AT LEAST: Red, Blond, Cambodian, NR2 each having it's own "certain" set up for the mutation to work ...... I'm not even going to try to put them in the punnet square equation. LOL
*** Orange is recessive.

Hope that answers your question.
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:36 PM   #8 
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Last edited by Sincerely; 05-15-2012 at 12:46 PM. Reason: Better explanation
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