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Old 05-16-2012, 12:25 PM   #11 
KadenJames
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Originally Posted by MoonShadow View Post
There are hundreds of thousands of bettas dying on pet store shelves around the world. When you breed just because you "feel like it" or you "want to have fun and experience breeding these fish just to try it" You are only bringing more unwanted bettas into the world, and taking homes away from the ones already out there in the pet stores. I don't believe any animal, be it fish, bird, dog cat, whatever, should be bred "just for fun" If you can't enjoy your pets without the need to breed them, then find them new homes, cause you shouldn't have them in the first place.

Breeding should be done with a goal in mind, you should be breeding to try and improve the species in some way, You should get a mentor, quality stock, and learn to do it the right way... plain and simple!

+1
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Old 05-16-2012, 12:50 PM   #12 
indjo
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No offense V, but when I saw the tittle, I was expecting tips on what to look for when choosing breeders. What form, what rays, etc - to improve this, to create that, and so on. I got the impression that this was nothing more than to promote IBC.

Quote:
"If you are not an IBC member who has read the standards, chances are you won't know what to pick (seen it a million times)."
IMO, you don't have to be an IBC member to read their standards. Yes being a member has it's advantages but you could gain knowledge anywhere - like this forum. Further, not everyone wants to show their collection. A lot of people simply wants to enjoy their hobby which IMO should totally be Fun. Then there's financial issues. There are many ways to make the hobby cheaper - eg. instead of getting individual heaters, people could keep their bettas near a room heater or in a very warm room (that's what I did). All you need is creativity - find methods that works for you.

I am not and never will be a member of the IBC - international or local, The main reason being show oriented hobbyists IMO tends to be arrogant and will look down (?), put off (?), or what ever, non show hobbyists who simply loves this species regardless of form. I love them all - both the traditional and modern types - and can't find a reason not to breed them AS LONG AS you can rehome them. I will support anyone wanting to breed any form as long as they have plans for the fry. ..... My hobby is breeding. I don't keep anything I can't breed except dogs. What ever I breed (birds and fish), bettas has always been one of them.

Pet store bettas may be of poor quality (show wise) but they came from breeders just the same. Some are rejects of respected breeders. Filthy and carry disease - yes if they stay on the shelves too long. But if people were to buy them the day they were shipped in, those bettas should be no different than AB bettas. Even you often say buying pet store bettas is Okay as long as you know what to look for. ....

@Moonshadow:
Then there is the question of "what exactly is quality". Is making the fins bigger and wider, changing their natural form better for the species? IMO if it were better for the species, then we would have found them in the wild. Ther is no such thing as better - only what we humans prefer.

Sorry for the long post.
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:08 PM   #13 
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Originally Posted by indjo View Post
No offense V, but when I saw the tittle, I was expecting tips on what to look for when choosing breeders. What form, what rays, etc - to improve this, to create that, and so on. I got the impression that this was nothing more than to promote IBC.

IMO, you don't have to be an IBC member to read their standards. Yes being a member has it's advantages but you could gain knowledge anywhere - like this forum. Further, not everyone wants to show their collection. A lot of people simply wants to enjoy their hobby which IMO should totally be Fun. Then there's financial issues. There are many ways to make the hobby cheaper - eg. instead of getting individual heaters, people could keep their bettas near a room heater or in a very warm room (that's what I did). All you need is creativity - find methods that works for you.

I am not and never will be a member of the IBC - international or local, The main reason being show oriented hobbyists IMO tends to be arrogant and will look down (?), put off (?), or what ever, non show hobbyists who simply loves this species regardless of form. I love them all - both the traditional and modern types - and can't find a reason not to breed them AS LONG AS you can rehome them. I will support anyone wanting to breed any form as long as they have plans for the fry. ..... My hobby is breeding. I don't keep anything I can't breed except dogs. What ever I breed (birds and fish), bettas has always been one of them.

Pet store bettas may be of poor quality (show wise) but they came from breeders just the same. Some are rejects of respected breeders. Filthy and carry disease - yes if they stay on the shelves too long. But if people were to buy them the day they were shipped in, those bettas should be no different than AB bettas. Even you often say buying pet store bettas is Okay as long as you know what to look for. ....

@Moonshadow:
Then there is the question of "what exactly is quality". Is making the fins bigger and wider, changing their natural form better for the species? IMO if it were better for the species, then we would have found them in the wild. Ther is no such thing as better - only what we humans prefer.

Sorry for the long post.
+1 Kudos
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Old 05-16-2012, 02:22 PM   #14 
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The International Betta Congress is for anyone that loves bettas. True the clubs have shows, but IME no one has "looked down" on me when I've asked for information. Most of the IBC members have been very friendly and share their knowledge freely.
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Old 05-16-2012, 02:49 PM   #15 
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I don't ha e any problem with breeding petstore fish as long as its done RESPONSIBLY. You have to have people who are willing to take petstore fish. Also MrV, may I remind you that Data was a petstore fish.
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Old 05-16-2012, 03:09 PM   #16 
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Yes Data was a petstore fish. BUT he had traits I look for. In a rare case like that some pet store fish can show what you want. However the spawn itself threw some traits I was not looking for at all.

Keep in mind he was spawned to a well bred PK female who carries HMPK and HM genes.
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Old 05-16-2012, 03:28 PM   #17 
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While I do agree with you on some parts, I must say it's a bit harsh considering you have bred/are raising a spawn of "petstore fish." You're also saying not to breed veiltails while you have tried/ are trying to breed VTs. IMO as long as you have a valid goal in mind,the supplies and time to breed, then it's okay. Hey, you started with pet store stock as well no?

I'll probably get flamed for this but, just my 2 cents.
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Old 05-16-2012, 03:34 PM   #18 
dramaqueen
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IMO IBC members tend to be rather arrogant and snobby. NOT ALL ARE THAT WAYjust most of the ones I've come across. You can get good info from their sites, though.
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Old 05-16-2012, 03:38 PM   #19 
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This is for new breeders mostly. I'm going to work on VTs because I have knowledge on genetics and more than enough space to do it. And those VTs are going to be shown.

Pet store fish are OK if you know how to pick them. Just picking two random pet store fish to spawn isn't a good way of choosing breeders.

If this thread is going to be an issue I can have it deleted.
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Old 05-16-2012, 03:41 PM   #20 
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I agree with choosing good quality fish if you're breeding petstore bettas.
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