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Old 05-16-2012, 06:13 PM   #31 
Sakura8
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I don't have a problem with people breeding "just for the experience" as long as they breed responsibly with conditioned, healthy fish AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, know where the spawn will go when they are grown. If you don't have an idea what to do with all those babies, then it might not be a good idea to spawn until you do. Otherwise, you'll have a houseful of little jars/little tanks.

Most people on here are not breeding for or keeping bettas for show quality. They are keeping them for the brilliant colors and the endearing personalities. Now, like the farmer and the cowman, we can be friends.

As for the debate on breeding for show quality, I just won't get into that. :)
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Old 05-16-2012, 06:25 PM   #32 
jeffegg2
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Cool

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Originally Posted by indjo View Post
Pet store bettas may be of poor quality (show wise) but they came from breeders just the same. Some are rejects of respected breeders. Filthy and carry disease - yes if they stay on the shelves too long. But if people were to buy them the day they were shipped in, those bettas should be no different than AB bettas. Even you often say buying pet store bettas is Okay as long as you know what to look for. ....


Sorry for the long post.
Nothing wrong with buying one of these local pet shop Bettas. But the breeders they come from are overseas and breed them in huge vats with no idea of what they will get or do they care. They sell them for pennies and the LPS sells them for dollars. I guess they are the puppy equivilant of a "Betta Mill".

The point being made on here is that if you are going to go to all the time and expense of breeding Betta's, then it is worth the extra few bucks to get stock that you know will find good homes. Do you have to join the IBC to do this? No you don't.

Jeff.
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Old 05-16-2012, 06:27 PM   #33 
Sakura8
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+1 Well said.
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Old 05-16-2012, 06:58 PM   #34 
Curlyfatbottom
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Depend on what your breeding.
A few extra buck can mean hundred
Giant I can get a decent pair for 40 out the door n into my house
Decent pair of giant for a know breeder is 100+ n then u have to pay shipping about 50 for over sea
That's is 150+ n you can open the box with a dead fish
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:57 PM   #35 
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Originally Posted by MrVampire181 View Post
They produce a mixture. Four or so will be promising and be the breeders keepers. The next best are sold as breeders to others and the lowest quality as pet or culled.
If only four fish in a spawn of possibly a hundred or more are considered quality, then it seems to me that the road to quality is a slow road indeed. And in the meantime, those ones who are not deemed quality are no different than those who were bred by someone who just wanted to breed for the experience or for something less than quality. Either way - whether your goal is quality or not - it seems like we end up with scores of fish who may or may not find homes.

I feel that breeding for show purposes can be a slippery slope, whether it is fish or cats or dogs.

Some people who have bred their pet bettas do so because they wish to have offspring from a beloved first betta. As long as the betta is healthy and the breeder has homes for the spawn, why not?

As for IBC, well, the people at the betta show were very friendly to me. :)
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Old 05-16-2012, 09:13 PM   #36 
Olympia
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Yes.. Is there really a "bad" betta? I've never seen someone on this forum go "your fish isn't pretty" or "those fry turned out really bad."
All any of us are doing is breeding for a look we like, or fish we like.
I garden as a hobby.. I don't take plants to plant shows or whatever, it's for fun. Not everyone wants to take fish so seriously.. If you have plans for the fry that's all that matters.
I don't think breeding fish is like breeding animals like dogs. Dogs abound with genetic problems, hip dysplasia, heart murmurs.. Fish don't have these hidden problems, and if they do I dont believe anyone tests for it. I'm sure no one here would breed a physically deformed fish.. I personally don't believe there are genes for the perfect fins that are desired. Lengths and such, yes, but the finer details seem random to me, if every single fish produces low quality fish.
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Old 05-17-2012, 08:16 AM   #37 
indjo
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Originally Posted by tpocicat View Post
The International Betta Congress is for anyone that loves bettas. True the clubs have shows, but IME no one has "looked down" on me when I've asked for information. Most of the IBC members have been very friendly and share their knowledge freely.
US hobbyists and Asian hobbyists are very different. In my area, not all hobbyists are willing to share their "secret" on making this and that.

What I meant was .... something like this ; when you meet a show hobbyist and get into a conversation - "what type do you work with" ... " Only pet store bettas" ..... then they go "oh, hmmm" .... end of conversation. They will show their reluctance if we try to keep the conversation going - specially if we ask about improving our bettas. It's like they're saying; " You keep trash. I don't want to know you".

To me, this is "looking down" upon pet hobbyists. I have had a number of such experiences meeting people in fish shops. I know not all are like that.... but a lot of them (if not most) are. .... Maybe it's just me, I don't know but I can never get a straight answer from them; including from a very close life time friend when I asked "where" he got his stock..... "It's unethical to answer that" - Why?

As far as I know, a lot of IBC hobbyists are willing to share their knowledge. Specially big well known breeders. But the ones growing might not be so friendly and will most probably discourage breeding pet bettas. I can understand both IBC and pet hobbyists and will support both. My answers will differ greatly, depending on the OP's interest.

Quote:
MrVampire181
If this thread is going to be an issue I can have it deleted.
Yes there are different and contrasting opinions on this, but IMO a good healthy discussion will benefit new members to decide which direction they want to go. IMO as long as each can respect opposing ideas, this thread should be allowed.

Quote:
jeffegg2
Nothing wrong with buying one of these local pet shop Bettas. But the breeders they come from are overseas and breed them in huge vats with no idea of what they will get or do they care. They sell them for pennies and the LPS sells them for dollars. I guess they are the puppy equivilant of a "Betta Mill".

The point being made on here is that if you are going to go to all the time and expense of breeding Betta's, then it is worth the extra few bucks to get stock that you know will find good homes. Do you have to join the IBC to do this? No you don't.
The demand is for colorful bettas, not quality. I know this for a fact because I used to help a friend bag them. And they don't breed in big pools. They raise them there after breeding them in 1g tanks/jugs. Sometimes they gather them from other breeders to meet their quota.

I agree that it's better to breed better quality bettas - easier to rehome. But not everyone can and have to work with whatever is readily available in nearby shops. Are we going to discourage these people from breeding - from having fun on their hobby. All I'm saying is people should be responsible of what they produce. As long as they can rehome their fry, it doesn't matter what they breed...... who knows, when they have better knowledge and can buy better stock, they will begin breeding for quality.
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