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Old 05-16-2012, 11:31 PM   #51 
Wolfie305
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Yeah, you're just gonna have to keep up with putting him outside a LOT then.

Lots of positive reinforcement and no punishing what-so-ever. If he doesn't like treats, praise is just as good to some dogs (raise the pitch in your voice, get excited, tell him he's a good boy, etc).

Like Olympia said, patience is key. Cases like this can take months sometimes even years depending on the severity on his previous situation.
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Old 05-17-2012, 08:38 AM   #52 
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Originally Posted by Sena Hansler View Post
the general anxiety he is just terrified of toys. That and he KNOWS he did something bad so he'll cower or slink away.
Sena, I just wanted to address this real quick.

The dog doesn't know he did something bad. He's reacting to your body language and tone of voice, and using submissive gestures trying to appease you. Cowering and slinking away are canine language for "you are over me in the social ranking, please don't hurt me."

Honestly, he hasn't a clue why you are angry, only that you are angry.

If you don't react to his action within literally two seconds, the dog cannot associate a specific behavior with your displeasure. Even ten seconds later is too long for their brains to make the connection. So when you come home and find the pile of poo on the floor, he's cowering and slinking because you are angry--remember, body language and tone of voice is key--and he's trying to appease you. He has no clue that his poo'ing in the house is the reason you're upset.

A lot of people try to show the dog what they're angry about but that never works. The dog isn't going to associate that act of poo'ing with your anger, only the poo itself.

Do some reading on how dogs learn, it's fascinating and will really help you understand your dog and help him develop behaviors that please you and make your home a happy home once again.

Again, Pat Miller is a great place to start. She is an animal behavioralist and works with both dogs and horses that have serious problems. If nothing else, hit up the public library for the book I referenced earlier and read the sections on dog language, how dogs learn and how to develop training techniques that work with your dog's brain. I promise you won't regret it.
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Old 05-17-2012, 08:59 AM   #53 
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I love those people who shove the dog's nose into their poop/pee to "teach them a lesson" Ugh.
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Old 05-17-2012, 09:26 AM   #54 
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Here's an excellent article on separation anxiety, generalized anxiety, isolation distress, and techniques to help the dog deal with it.

http://www.savethehounds.org/separation.html

A particularly good section:

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Another reason separation anxiety seems so prevalent these days compared to a few decades ago is that it is misdiagnosed with some frequency by laypersons. With an increased awareness of the condition has come an increase in misidentification of behaviors that resemble separation distress behaviors, but really arenít.

For example, house soiling can be related to anxiety, but the cause could also be incomplete housetraining, lack of access to appropriate elimination areas with unreasonable owner expectations (expecting the dog to "hold it" for 10 hours or more); fear, excitement, marking, submissive elimination, or physical incontinence. Destructive behavior may a result of separation anxiety, or it could be normal puppy behavior, play, reaction to outside stimuli, and/or an outlet for excess energy. Separation distress could be the cause of excessive barking and howling, or the dog could be stimulated to bark by street sounds (traffic, people talking), trespassers (i.e.: mail carrier, intruder, Girls Scouts selling cookies), social facilitation (other dogs barking), play, aggression, or fear.

Itís critically important that a problem behavior be correctly identified prior to the implementation of a behavior modification program. It does no good to try to modify separation anxiety if thatís not really the problem. (See SidebaróCase Study #1.)

If elimination accidents occur when the owner is home as well as when the dog is left alone, itís more likely a housetraining problem than a separation issue. Separation-related destruction is usually directed toward escape efforts Ė chewing or clawing at or through doorframes, windowsills and walls. If the destruction is more generalized throughout the house, it points toward one or more of the other possible causes, rather than an isolation issue. A strategically located video camera or sound-activated tape recorder can help identify possible outside stimuli, such as visitors to the home or unusual noises, that might trigger what otherwise may appear to be separation-related behaviors.
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Old 05-17-2012, 09:34 AM   #55 
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I love those people who shove the dog's nose into their poop/pee to "teach them a lesson" Ugh.
It's a very common misunderstanding, Wolfie. They just don't know how the canine brain works.

I have a breed of dog that everyone says is untrainable. Even my vet said that training this dog would be almost impossible (that was a bit intimidating .) My dog is 21 months old now and is very well trained. She goes into stores with me, she visits elderly relatives' homes with me, and everyone says she's a doll.

When we got her I immediately started researching how dogs learn, and specifically how this breed learns. Because the breed has many wild canine behaviors they have to be trained differently than most other dogs but even they have canine brains. Between those two efforts, and spending a lot of time working on training her, I have a wonderful dog who is welcome wherever she goes.

It's all in understanding how their minds work and making use of that understanding to teach them how to live peacefully in our homes and among people. If a human doesn't teach them, they'll do what comes naturally to them--and much of that I don't want in MY house!

Don't be too hard on those ignorant people. Give them the information so they can go learn for themselves.
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Old 05-17-2012, 10:34 AM   #56 
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Casey, the thing is he cowers when I am not mad. He'll come from downstairs slinking with his tail between the legs, glancing at me as he hides beneath a chair.

What kind of dog is "untrainable" Oh heck, beagles you can train but people forget to STOP BABYING THEIR DOGS (which in many, many cases I've seen lead to the dog walking all over their people and being the leader), and they forget it's a dog that needs a job... Same with stubborn rotties - "after a certain age you can't train them." so says my brother, and a mastiff breeder. 1. yes you can. 2. yes you can. 3. just because they are stubborn doesn't mean they're stupid ><

I told my bf he is not using his dad's useless efforts. "But their dog doesn't poop in the house." good for THAT dog - completely different breed (bichon/spaniel) and they've had him since he was a puppy in their hand. Mine is NOT a puppy, but still has puppy problems, came from a neglectful home that abused him. His dad uses the "rub their nose in the mess" and "spank" method whcih fyi never...ever...hit a fearful dog. The rotti I dealt with was fear aggressive, not mean like everyone said... poor thing is STILL co-owned :(

I've dealt with my friend's dog. he comes from a high stress home, he runs the house too... despite the chaos and the yelling and hate steaming in there. he came over, and immediately marks HIS territory in MY house. I stopped my friend from "smacking his rump" and said I'll watch him, and address it. He did it again, I just touched his shoulder and said "no!" and he flipped at me x.x So I let him throw a tantrum, while holding the leash/collar, and he flipped for 15 minutes... then he laid down and was relaxed.. not stiff like he was before. I wasn't angry though..
__________________________________________________ _____________

As for Gurgi, the new crate I got has all 4 sides open and he likes it better... maybe because he can see all around him - maybe it was the crate they used to use and he has become accustomed to is? I'm using it for "bedtime" which will give him a routine (and me the peace of mind my door can be open without him getting into garbage or defecating!!!) and shows the crate isn's bad. yesterday he cowered, I just placed him in front of it, and he went in by himself and I "praised" him. So he laid down and that was it.

Last edited by Sena Hansler; 05-17-2012 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 05-17-2012, 11:06 AM   #57 
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Sena, how long do you walk your dog? many don't agree with his ways, but Dog Whisperer Ceaser Millan says many times the issue can be related to lack of proper exercise. smaller dogs are bundles of energy, and often need longer walks than other breeds. just putting the dog out to run about isn't the same as taking him/her for a good, long, tiring walk. even the other lady from Animal Planet... what was her name? Victoria something, says long walks are good in helping dogs with many different issues.
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Old 05-17-2012, 11:09 AM   #58 
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I agree with some of Ceasar's ways despite the hate spews. Some of it DOES make sense, some of it does work... Mainly the posture he mentions.

I walk him usually 2 times a day.. If I want to go downtown, I take him. That is a good 3 hour walk x.x by then I have to drag him or he is by my side. I walk until he is walking by my side without the urge to pull. Plus getting him with his bud Buddy, who is 8 and still a little energetic brick house, he gets real exhausted
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Old 05-17-2012, 11:14 AM   #59 
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I'm not sure that they don't know they did something wrong.. If my dog throws ups when I'm gone, she acts like she did something wrong when I get home.. She's always all happy and loving, unless she did something while I was gone.
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Old 05-17-2012, 11:15 AM   #60 
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Poor little guy! Sounds like he has some serious trauma issues that are going to take a lot of time and love to help him move past. God bless you for taking the time to love him and help him! If he cowers when you just walk in the room, you're going to have to teach him that ALL good things come from you, NO BAD things come from you, and he's absolutely safe with you. It won't be a fast process but over time he will come to trust you. He may always be sensitive to new people, changes in the home and other stimuli that you wouldn't think would upset him.

Most dogs don't like the solid-sided shipping crates. I have a blanket over part of my dog's wire crate so she can have the "den" feel but still see out. If she were put in a shipping crate she'd go bonkers!

What kind of dog is considered untrainable? Siberian Huskies. You would be amazed at how many people, even so-called trainers, say that Siberians are not trainable except in harness pulling a sled (commands: gee, haw, hike, whoa.) The problem is that Siberians don't respond to praise. They are very independent dogs and couldn't care less whether their owner is pleased with them. Training routines used for other dogs, like collies and labs and breeds far removed from their wild heritage, simply don't work on Siberians, which leads many people to believe that they cannot be trained as a normal household pet. (Factoid: Based on an AKC genetic analysis of all recognized breeds, Siberian Huskies and Malamutes are the closest domesticated dog to the wolf genetically, except dogs produced by recent deliberate crossing with wolves. Third closest--honest!--is the Sharpei.) If one knows how Siberians think and accept their nature, one absolutely can train a Siberian as a housepet. Sadly far too many people purchase that sweet puppy thinking they have a shaggy, wolf-faced Labrador Retriever and when the pup hits adolescence (9-11 months old) and doesn't respond to standard training, the ignorant but well-meaning owners either dump the dog or banish him to the back yard.

My dog is proof positive that Siberians absolutely can be trained, want to be trained and will be trained if the human only learns their language.

Best of luck and I really recommend browsing Pat Miller's website. She works with abused and neglected dogs and horses, and she has some wonderful insight and tips for owners of those poor animals.
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