I do not know what's wrong. Please help

[coffeelovinchick]

My son has a blue Delta tail betta. He named him Dinoco Blue from the Cars movie. He has had the fish for about 4 months now. Dinoco Blue has always been active and swims a lot around his tank. He had been in a small Betta bowl, about a quart or so, maybe slightly larger. My 2 daughters each have African Dwarf frogs and they were in a separate full ecosystem cube. My son dumped a bunch of food into the frog cube and it required extensive cleaning which in turn meant separating two different kinds of rocks after they were mixed. That took about 4 hours. After deciding that I was not going through that again I decided to move them into a larger (5 gallon) filtered/heated tank. After talking to the pet store people, they told me I could put the betta with the frogs since the betta would not attack them. After getting the tank ready on Saturday night, letting it sit more than 24 hours all day Sunday, we moved the betta and frogs into the 5 gallon tank yesterday afternoon. They were all ecstatic. The frogs were swimming like olympians and the betta was darting all over. They all seemed so happy to have so much room to roam. Last night I noticed the betta laying on the bottom of the tank. No idea what else to do, I checked the water. All the levels were fine. Nothing was too low or too high. Nothing was in a danger zone. The water was ok. This morning, half expecting my son's betta to be dead, we checked on him before the kids woke up and he was still laying in the bottom of the tank, breathing, but barely moving. The water was cloudy, when last night it was crystal clear. Sometimes he is on his side, sometimes right side up, and other times upside down. I went to the pet store this morning and asked them what the problem is and what I can do to keep my son's fish from dying. The lady told me it was likely ammonia from it being a new tank and there is just not enough good bacteria in there yet. She told me to change out the water again and put in some Betta Ultimate water conditioner in it to make sure there is no ammonia or chlorine in it which the test strips don't test for. I did what she said as soon as we got back home. But he is still laying in the bottom of the tank. He does swim around a little, but he seems very weak. He got too close to the filter intake and it looked like he was suctioned to it. I turned the filter off and he sank to the bottom. He is still mainly laying on the bottom either on his side, upside down, or vertical. But from time to time now he is swimming a little. Not long, but a little. What is going on? Is Dinoco Blue going to die? Is there something else I can do for him? I really don't want to see a sad little boy the day before his 4th birthday crying over his dead fishy. Someone please help me save his friend.

[ZackyBear]

Well first off, your tank is WAY too small for 2 ADF AND a betta.

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread....per+Care+Guide

I would separate the betta in his own heated tank and see if that perks him up.

[coffeelovinchick]

The pet store told me that a 5 gallon tank was plenty big enough for the 2 frogs and a betta. Were they wrong?

[ZackyBear]

If you read the link, yes they were. It has everything you need to know about caring for ADF :o

ADF require 3 gallons minimum for one frog.

It's also a bad idea to put them together since the bettas and ADF will mostly likely attack each other in such a small tank.

when ADFs are kept with Bettas there are stories of either the ADF having his eyes and toes nipped and even legs broken by a feisty Betta, and on the other hand, there are stories of ADF's grabbing a Betta's tail and hanging on causing stress and injury to the fish.

[coffeelovinchick]

Ok, well I can separate them again, that's not a problem. But what about my betta? What's going on with him?

[ZackyBear]

When you introduced them, the 'excitement' was probably something along the lines of being stressed. Once you separate them he should perk up. Are his fins torn or ragged looking?

[coffeelovinchick]

Maybe a little. I can't be totally sure, since they are not fanned out like when he is swimming.

[Leeniex]

I would just put him in a warm, dark place by himself with clean water and see if he perks up.

[MollyJean]

The problem with pet stores if they are in it to make money. It's rare you find a good meaning store worker who will give you good advice, but even then, you need to check and double check every piece of information you get. Betta need 2.5 gallons for a single fish, and more is better; That is the minimum. And while I have never kept an ADF I know they need about the same, maybe more. So 5 gallons is great for your betta fish by himself, or a frog, but not all 3. The ideal setup would be 2 frogs in a 10 gallon and the betta in the 5 gallon, but sometimes ideal isn't always attainable, huh?

I would move the fish back into his old home or, if the ecosystem cube is larger, into it. Make sure it is clean and properly heated and the water is conditioned. Make sure he is acclimated properly. While it is ideal to let the water sit over night, in cases like this you can move a little faster. Conditioned water should be fine after an hour or two.

Now, for the fish. If this doesn't perk him up, you should fill out the following and if you can, give us a couple of pictures, and we can figure out if he has a more serious problem.

Housing
What size is your tank?
What temperature is your tank?
Does your tank have a filter?
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?
Is your tank heated?
What tank mates does your betta fish live with?

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish?
How often do you feed your betta fish?

Maintenance
How often do you perform a water change?
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change?
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change?

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity:

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed?
How has your betta fish's behavior changed?
When did you start noticing the symptoms?
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how?
Does your fish have any history of being ill?
How old is your fish (approximately)?

[coffeelovinchick]

I moved him back into the empty eco-system. There is nothing at all in there except him and water right now. I am going to attach some pics I just took one from the top looking down on him and the other looking at the side of the cube eye-to-eye with him. Here is the info from the form you asked for:

Housing
What size is your tank? 5 gal
What temperature is your tank? 78
Does your tank have a filter? yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? no
Is your tank heated? yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? 2 AFDs

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Pellets and Frozen (thawed) brine shrimp
How often do you feed your betta fish? once every 2-3 days

Maintenance
How often do you perform a water change? weekly
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 80-90
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Water conditioner

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia
Nitrite:0
Nitrate:0
pH:8.0
Hardness: between 800 and 1000
Alkalinity: 180

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? tail and fins look a little ragged
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? completely lethargic. little to no movement
When did you start noticing the symptoms? 22 hours ago
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? only moved back to separate tank and changed water
Does your fish have any history of being ill? no
How old is your fish (approximately)? no idea. owned for about 4 months.