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Old 05-26-2012, 05:46 PM   #81 
dramaqueen
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I liked the red myself. It's easier to read. :)
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:49 PM   #82 
MaisyDawgThirteen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffegg2 View Post
Who is yelling?

it was admitted that natural selection can result in a smaller animal, which contradicts the statement that smaller animals are less apt to survive. I'm not the one that said that smaller animals have smaller immune systems... And I have made no personal attacks unlike those that said that because I am a breeder does not make me an expert in genetics. The logic of attacking the person making an argument to make less of the premise is flawed logic. Whether or not I am an expert does not make correct the assumption that smaller animals = not as healthy due to smaller animals having a smaller immune system.

Pretty simple error in logic... And red makes for good contrast.

Jeff.
+1
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:59 PM   #83 
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Guys this is getting out of hand!This person asked a question, we are supposed to answer it, to the best of our ability, yes a polite debate is good, but when the thread turns into a war of words the original question is completely forgotten!Jeff, typing in red letters will not get the point across more, it just annoys people.Furthermore, telling people they are not right will not help either.If you want to get a point across, it would be better to say your piece, show scientific fact behind it and yes, voice your opinion, but not in a way that others may find offending.

I do not mean to be rude to anyone, I just don't want the OP's question to be lost in a war of words!Especially when the arguments (seem to be) slowly drifting away from the thread topic!This applies to others too!

My opinion is that you WOULD be able to breed mini betta's!The size COULD be detromental to their health, but if controlled correctly it COULD work. To do this in a controlled way I believe you would have to continuously breed to find the healthiest "dwarf" betta possible, before repeating the process, to make another "dwarf". IF and this is a BIG if!this was done, and perfected for a few generations, slowly downsizing each time, to try and prevent major deformities from sudden changes in the fish's bodies, then it MAY work!However as with everything there will come a point that the organs can get no smaller and you will end up with fish that are constantly sick, and that die at the slightest change!

Comparing babies as a dwarf fish, cannot be valid, as nature intended babies to have smaller organs which WILL grow. In the end the "dwarf" fish will grow, but there will always be a limit because of their dna.

Bringing up the topic of teacup dogs, this is an example of uncontrolled selective breeding, where people have bred because they look cute as small dogs!These people I do not believe factored in the health problems that this leaves the dogs with, and I personally could never back this sort of breeding.

Personally I do not think people should develop "mini betta's" as the health risks would be larger by far than the cuteness of the fish.

To the OP I understand that you do not wish to breed "mini betta's" that last comment was just my opinion for anyone who was thinking about it!

This is a good debate while it remains polite and friendly, but when it just turns into warfare that is when it becomes a BAD debate.

Again, I do not wish to be rude (etc.) I am just registering my opinions on the situation at hand!

Please note, some of these comments are opinion, others do have scientific fact behind them!
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Old 05-26-2012, 06:20 PM   #84 
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A little bit of debate is okay but the moment someone's feelings get hurt, it needs to stop. The OP's question was answered a while ago, I see, so any further debate is probably meaningless.
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Old 05-26-2012, 06:34 PM   #85 
bettalover2033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakura8 View Post
A little bit of debate is okay but the moment someone's feelings get hurt, it needs to stop. The OP's question was answered a while ago, I see, so any further debate is probably meaningless.
Yes the op's question was answered, but really we basically opened another debate for other questions to be answered. Whether we all agree or not, it's still civilized so IMO this is nothing too "mean." I think words can be exchanged better, but that's all.

We want to put our opinions through and see what others opinions are as well. This is giving us a better understanding of how we all think and such so there's nothing wrong with that.
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Old 05-26-2012, 06:45 PM   #86 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeckyFish97 View Post
Guys this is getting out of hand!This person asked a question, we are supposed to answer it, to the best of our ability, yes a polite debate is good, but when the thread turns into a war of words the original question is completely forgotten!Jeff, typing in red letters will not get the point across more, it just annoys people.Furthermore, telling people they are not right will not help either.If you want to get a point across, it would be better to say your piece, show scientific fact behind it and yes, voice your opinion, but not in a way that others may find offending.

I do not mean to be rude to anyone, I just don't want the OP's question to be lost in a war of words!Especially when the arguments (seem to be) slowly drifting away from the thread topic!This applies to others too!

My opinion is that you WOULD be able to breed mini betta's!The size COULD be detromental to their health, but if controlled correctly it COULD work. To do this in a controlled way I believe you would have to continuously breed to find the healthiest "dwarf" betta possible, before repeating the process, to make another "dwarf". IF and this is a BIG if!this was done, and perfected for a few generations, slowly downsizing each time, to try and prevent major deformities from sudden changes in the fish's bodies, then it MAY work!However as with everything there will come a point that the organs can get no smaller and you will end up with fish that are constantly sick, and that die at the slightest change!

Comparing babies as a dwarf fish, cannot be valid, as nature intended babies to have smaller organs which WILL grow. In the end the "dwarf" fish will grow, but there will always be a limit because of their dna.

Bringing up the topic of teacup dogs, this is an example of uncontrolled selective breeding, where people have bred because they look cute as small dogs!These people I do not believe factored in the health problems that this leaves the dogs with, and I personally could never back this sort of breeding.

Personally I do not think people should develop "mini betta's" as the health risks would be larger by far than the cuteness of the fish.

To the OP I understand that you do not wish to breed "mini betta's" that last comment was just my opinion for anyone who was thinking about it!

This is a good debate while it remains polite and friendly, but when it just turns into warfare that is when it becomes a BAD debate.

Again, I do not wish to be rude (etc.) I am just registering my opinions on the situation at hand!

Please note, some of these comments are opinion, others do have scientific fact behind them!
But smaller organs are possible! Look at the newborn fry, they have organs that are almost too small to see. I don't understand the premise that smaller bred fish would squish larger organs over a smaller fish?


Oh well....
Jeff.
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Old 05-26-2012, 06:46 PM   #87 
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As long as no one's feelings get hurt, talk away.
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Old 05-26-2012, 06:50 PM   #88 
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Becky, this is the point I was trying to get across.

Jeff, no disrespect, but I felt like you were switching my words around and I pushing in unneeded info and comments that threw me off a bit of my point. I never said nor implied that bettas would have smaller immune systems. As well as I never said nor implied that smaller beings are less healthy than big ones. Just that the sickness would take less time to travel through the fish's body if it was small than if it was big.

Was this more understandable?


Quote:
Originally Posted by BeckyFish97 View Post
Guys this is getting out of hand!This person asked a question, we are supposed to answer it, to the best of our ability, yes a polite debate is good, but when the thread turns into a war of words the original question is completely forgotten!Jeff, typing in red letters will not get the point across more, it just annoys people.Furthermore, telling people they are not right will not help either.If you want to get a point across, it would be better to say your piece, show scientific fact behind it and yes, voice your opinion, but not in a way that others may find offending.

I do not mean to be rude to anyone, I just don't want the OP's question to be lost in a war of words!Especially when the arguments (seem to be) slowly drifting away from the thread topic!This applies to others too!

My opinion is that you WOULD be able to breed mini betta's!The size COULD be detromental to their health, but if controlled correctly it COULD work. To do this in a controlled way I believe you would have to continuously breed to find the healthiest "dwarf" betta possible, before repeating the process, to make another "dwarf". IF and this is a BIG if!this was done, and perfected for a few generations, slowly downsizing each time, to try and prevent major deformities from sudden changes in the fish's bodies, then it MAY work!However as with everything there will come a point that the organs can get no smaller and you will end up with fish that are constantly sick, and that die at the slightest change!

Comparing babies as a dwarf fish, cannot be valid, as nature intended babies to have smaller organs which WILL grow. In the end the "dwarf" fish will grow, but there will always be a limit because of their dna.

Bringing up the topic of teacup dogs, this is an example of uncontrolled selective breeding, where people have bred because they look cute as small dogs!These people I do not believe factored in the health problems that this leaves the dogs with, and I personally could never back this sort of breeding.

Personally I do not think people should develop "mini betta's" as the health risks would be larger by far than the cuteness of the fish.

To the OP I understand that you do not wish to breed "mini betta's" that last comment was just my opinion for anyone who was thinking about it!

This is a good debate while it remains polite and friendly, but when it just turns into warfare that is when it becomes a BAD debate.

Again, I do not wish to be rude (etc.) I am just registering my opinions on the situation at hand!

Please note, some of these comments are opinion, others do have scientific fact behind them!
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Old 05-26-2012, 07:15 PM   #89 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bettalover2033 View Post
Becky, this is the point I was trying to get across.

Jeff, no disrespect, but I felt like you were switching my words around and I pushing in unneeded info and comments that threw me off a bit of my point. I never said nor implied that bettas would have smaller immune systems. As well as I never said nor implied that smaller beings are less healthy than big ones. Just that the sickness would take less time to travel through the fish's body if it was small than if it was big.

Was this more understandable?
Sorry if you felt offended... But take that premise. Time for sickness to travel through a body. Doesn't this imply that a smaller fish would be less apt to survive an illness? So smaller fish would be less likely to survive the natural selection process? It would just seem to follow what you are saying, that's all.

On the other hand, My premise is that all fish having the same resistance to immunity, the smaller fish would have less infection to fight off. So all things equal out.

Jeff.
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Old 05-26-2012, 07:25 PM   #90 
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I don't understand how this has gotten out of hand - it just seems like a good debate to me. :P

I think posting in different colours is just Jeff's style. lol
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