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Old 06-15-2012, 06:38 PM   #1 
KadenJames
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Exclamation What to look for when buying a halfmoon

Hey guys! I see a lot of auctions on Aquabid lately that are borderline scams. I made a little diagram showing you some key points to look for and to avoid when buying a halfmoon betta. I'll eventually make one of all the forms, and I'll make a branching diagram for those who need it, too. Keep in mind that you'll never find the perfect betta, every one of them has a flaw of some sort. What matters is knowing when you're being taken advantage of by online sellers.



Enjoy!
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Old 06-15-2012, 06:55 PM   #2 
Sincerely
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This is PERFECT. Thank you so much for making this, I was thinking about making a cheat sheet here at my home for myself

-Sincerely
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:01 PM   #3 
jeffegg2
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Cool

Rather than a sketch, which is good for showing what the IBC is going for, and what to work for in breeding, a few pictures of these "perfect" fish would help.

I have never seen one of these perfect fish....

Jeff.
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:12 PM   #4 
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Like I said in the text above the picture, there has never been a "perfect" betta. We can only try our hardest to get as close to perfect as we can, but even then there are flaws. This just lays out the basic desired features, as well as common flaws that novices may overlook.


Here's a few good examples of exceptional fish, but note that they DO have their flaws-








Here's an example of a fish that is way overpriced-

http://www.ebay.com/itm/live-Tropica...#ht_500wt_1361

Note the round edges, the stair stepping, the dip in the head, short dorsal, long anal- priced at $40, nearly twice as much as most other bettas?

That's why I posted this.

Last edited by KadenJames; 06-15-2012 at 07:20 PM.
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:36 PM   #5 
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In my search for breeding stock that I think I can improve upon I will say I have not seen perfect form even on the $200 AB fish. I think though, what I can take from this, is to do what show judges do...look for the closest to ideal. You can have a show full of spoonheads and lop sided fins, and have one win if it is the closest to the ideal out of the bunch.

I managed to pick out two pairs that I felt were the closest to ideal that I could find-out of what was available at the time. Unfortunately, I am dealing in giants and I haven't really seen where exceptionally good form is very easy to find as it is in the regular bettas. Sure, I do believe they are out there...and they are being held on to by their breeders.

The best I can hope for is to find the biggest possible fish without glaring hard to fix faults and breed them to kings and regulars that are as close to perfect as possible.

Luckily for me I have patience, space,
time, money and no problem whatsoever culling heavily so I don't feel as though I am bringing worthless fish to the market by having to start out with less than ideal subjects.

I do find the diagrams and drawings very useful. What I would love for you very experienced breeders to add is what faults are super hard to fix and what faults can be cleaned up in a generation or two. That would give me a better understanding of what the deal breakers are so that I can keep them out of my lines.

Also, a well defined list of breeding no-no's (incompatibles) would be great. It's easy to have the mentality of breeding this to that and see what we get-especially if you haven't researched much. I haven't bred my first fish and I have an entire spiral notebook of notes and plans. I joined the IBC just so I could get the judging standards and have access to better stock.
I'm sure I'm in the minority...if you guys made it super easy to find out what doesn't work I think that would keep a lot of useless fish from having to compete for homes and by doing that, there would be fewer less than ideal fish for buyers to get scammed with.

I also think it's should be added that it's OK to buy a fish just because it's pretty but it is good knowledge to have to avoid paying premium prices for pet quality fish.
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:39 PM   #6 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilikebutterflies View Post
In my search for breeding stock that I think I can improve upon I will say I have not seen perfect form even on the $200 AB fish. I think though, what I can take from this, is to do what show judges do...look for the closest to ideal. You can have a show full of spoonheads and lop sided fins, and have one win if it is the closest to the ideal out of the bunch.

I managed to pick out two pairs that I felt were the closest to ideal that I could find-out of what was available at the time. Unfortunately, I am dealing in giants and I haven't really seen where exceptionally good form is very easy to find as it is in the regular bettas. Sure, I do believe they are out there...and they are being held on to by their breeders.

The best I can hope for is to find the biggest possible fish without glaring hard to fix faults and breed them to kings and regulars that are as close to perfect as possible.

Luckily for me I have patience, space,
time, money and no problem whatsoever culling heavily so I don't feel as though I am bringing worthless fish to the market by having to start out with less than ideal subjects.

I do find the diagrams and drawings very useful. What I would love for you very experienced breeders to add is what faults are super hard to fix and what faults can be cleaned up in a generation or two. That would give me a better understanding of what the deal breakers are so that I can keep them out of my lines.

Also, a well defined list of breeding no-no's (incompatibles) would be great. It's easy to have the mentality of breeding this to that and see what we get-especially if you haven't researched much. I haven't bred my first fish and I have an entire spiral notebook of notes and plans. I joined the IBC just so I could get the judging standards and have access to better stock.
I'm sure I'm in the minority...if you guys made it super easy to find out what doesn't work I think that would keep a lot of useless fish from having to compete for homes and by doing that, there would be fewer less than ideal fish for buyers to get scammed with.

I also think it's should be added that it's OK to buy a fish just because it's pretty but it is good knowledge to have to avoid paying premium prices for pet quality fish.

+1, love it.
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:41 PM   #7 
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I am such a novice, so I just see a beautiful fish:)
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Old 06-15-2012, 08:29 PM   #8 
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What we need is an illustrated standard, I have one for Pembroke Welsh Corgis and it shows the ideal, faults and disqualifications for every part of the Pembroke. It was the best tool out there for me to learn PWC conformation and I think if real pictures (Cropped to exhibit the peticular anatomy in question) an illustrated standard could be compiled!

Examples of an ideal dorsal, one that needs a broader base or one that exhibits stair stepping. Another picture that shows an upright dorsal but isnt pointing forward. I would love to help find pictures to compile for this project, this could become a great guide for people looking at their stock and be able to break down every part of the anatomy and know what they should expect if they bred the betta in question. I mean this is just going over halfmoon form, one could be made for every form. Even color could be illustrated, especially colors that get confused easily or have faults that are hard to see.

I wouldn't be able to pitch in when it comes to breeding experience and maybe I'm getting ahead of myself about this whole project but I can't help but become giddy when speaking about conformation. I think I'm suffering from withdrawal symptoms from not showing my dog

All said, it would be a worthwhile cause if one was made.

-Sincerely
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Old 06-16-2012, 01:54 AM   #9 
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Another great stickie! Good job Kaden. Baby steps can only lead to people learning and breeding the good fins. Or at least close to the good fins and I guess we can be examples of quality breeders.

Last edited by bettalover2033; 06-16-2012 at 02:09 AM.
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Old 06-16-2012, 04:35 AM   #10 
indjo
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[quote=Ilikebutterflies;1117766Also, a well defined list of breeding no-no's (incompatibles) would be great. It's easy to have the mentality of breeding this to that and see what we get-especially if you haven't researched much. I haven't bred my first fish and I have an entire spiral notebook of notes and plans. I joined the IBC just so I could get the judging standards and have access to better stock.
I'm sure I'm in the minority...if you guys made it super easy to find out what doesn't work I think that would keep a lot of useless fish from having to compete for homes and by doing that, there would be fewer less than ideal fish for buyers to get scammed with.

I also think it's should be added that it's OK to buy a fish just because it's pretty but it is good knowledge to have to avoid paying premium prices for pet quality fish.[/quote]
Very good point. I've never really given this much thought.

All I can say is that perfect dorsal form is hard to maintain. Even spawning a pair with perfect dorsal form may not produce the desired traits. The same goes for perfect anal. As for caudal, making round edges pointy is more due to luck. But once you have it, it breeds true.

I find females to be bigger determinants for form. So always be on the look out for those special females. Then keep breeding them until the desired traits breed true.
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