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Old 06-08-2012, 10:56 PM   #1 
Sivan
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Relapse: I can't figure out what is making him sick!

Crusoe completely healed last week but now he is returning back to his sick conditions. However, his health worsened rapidly and he has become just as sick in one day as it took him three days to get the last time. I cannot figure out what is going wrong or what in the tank can be causing him illness.

Once again, Crusoe is heavily lethargic. He had appetite this morning but no longer eats. The pellets I thought he ate in the morning he actually spit back out. His fins/tail are all clamped again and he move rarely. He is currently laying at the bottom of his tank breathing somewhat normally but not swimming or moving any fins. He does occasionally swim around the tank but his movements are jerky and few.

However, this time I notice his eyes have changed. They are not cloudy or protruding, no signs of eye-related sickness that I know of. They are changing appearance. When I first got him he had dark eyes and their color was mostly undeterminable except when light hit at a certain angle, showing he has deep blue eyes. However, now a circle around his pupils can clearly be seen and the blue in his eyes is very easy to notice. It is not the fact that his eyes have color that bothers me but where he has color. The color only show just under his pupils on both sides and moves when his eyes move. I do not know if this is related or just fish-eye normal behavior but I find it strange.

I have some theories as to his behavior/health change.

Last time I placed him in a hospital tank and gave him one dosage of Jungle Parasite Clear. His health greatly increased and he seemed to recover overnight afterward. Although the instructions called for a second dosage in 48 hours, I noticed his slime coat appeared to be coming off so I stopped the medicine dosage, continued with water changes, and put him in his 5 gallon tank after a day of monitoring. I wonder if I should have given him the second dose now and if the problem came back because it was not truly eradicated.

My second theory is that carbon in his sponge filter is bad. I have heard recommendations to remove it but could not figure out how to and left it in. I have read some things suggestion that carbon can be bad for fish and cause illness, so I cannot help but wonder if that is the case. His illness appear right after I introduced the filter into the tank and he recovered outside its presence, so perhaps his return to the tank with the filter has caused this condition.

Finally, I saw that the day after I placed him back into his 5 gallon tank he managed to shred his tail. His water was freshly clean and I added a very small amount of aquarium salt to prevent infection. I have removed the decoration I believe tore his fin and replaced it with a new hiding spot that has no sharp edges at all. Could his tiny shreds (they were very minor) have gotten infected anyway? They have no change in color and have not gotten worse.

After the last time he was sick, I did a 100% water change and thoroughly cleaned everything, including the sponge filter under tap water in case some bacteria from the old tank water was harmful. He was fine until today. Ironically, he fell ill last Friday too.

I have been doing regular water changes, trying to get this cycle to start. I have had no luck and the water conditions have remained stable but not ideal. He has no nitrites and no nitrates, only ammonia which does not get above 25 ppm. I checked it before I did a SECOND partial water change today, finding that the ammonia level was between 0 and 25 ppm, so probably 15-20 ppm. I had done a 10% water change in the morning but after seeing his conditions were not improving, the second water change was a 75% change.

His temperature maintains itself at 78 to 80 degrees in a 5 gallon, uncycled (but I am trying) tank.

Does anybody have any idea? I have a medical tank on standby in case he is not better by tomorrow. He is floating at the top of the water not moving at all, only breathing softly, at the moment. He is still responsive but like last time he has a change in personality.

I am considering changing food. I wonder if it has gone bad or is contaminated with something. Other than that, I have no idea what to do. I do fear he will die if his conditions do not improve...
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:14 AM   #2 
Pataflafla
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Does his poop look strange at all or is he bloated a bit?

He could be starting up with parasites again. To be on the safe side, treat him and do the entire course of medication even if his slime coat looks to be coming off. It will not hurt him and he's most likely shedding it out of stress being in the hospital tank.

If you do any medication, continue with the full treatment even if you find it is something else that's wrong as splotchy treatment can let bacteria and parasites to build up a resistance to the medication which makes it harder to treat the next time around.

Id' start a full course with the Jungle as soon as you can in the hospital tank and keep things dark to let him relax.
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:47 AM   #3 
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He hasn't pooped but it was normal yesterday. No bloating, just a lot of moping around. I put him in the hospital tank last night because he was really worrying me and was just getting worse as time went on and this morning I notice him swimming more and his everything is less clamped! I cannot figure this thing out and it is driving me crazy!
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Old 06-09-2012, 10:56 AM   #4 
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I'm sorry Crusoe is not feeling well. I understand completely how frustrating it is trying to figure out the correct course of treatment when a fish is sick.

The only suggestion I can offer is to be sure to remove the carbon from your filter if you decide to use any medications. Carbon absorbs and removes the medicine from the water. Although some things I have read suggest that if the carbon is more than a couple of weeks old it is ineffective anyway and therefore not necessary to remove, I would remove it just in case to be sure he's receiving the full dosage.

What kind of filter do you use and maybe someone can help you figure out how to remove the carbon?
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:05 PM   #5 
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I don't treat with medicine in his large tank and know not to use medicine with a filter. I have a Tom Mini Filter. I am sure the carbon is fine but I am paranoid. He is doing much better today and I am so frustrated as to what could be causing him to get so ill! It could be the food, it could be the filter contaminating the water, it could be anything.

Crusoe looks like the twin of your betta, Bounce.
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Old 06-09-2012, 01:34 PM   #6 
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I love those filters! I have the model 1250 and used it in a 5 gal tank and it worked great. I was amazed at how well it worked to be so tiny!

If you ever do want to remove the carbon from that particular filter, just pull straight up on the the top section where the suction cups are to remove the the cartridge and unclip the little basket at the bottom containing the carbon. It just unclips from the two plastic side bars running alongside the sponge.

It is peculiar that he initially got sick after you added that filter and then seems to improve when he's away from it. Have you tried putting him back in his regular 5 gal tank without the filter to see how he does? If yours is also the model 1250, do you use the spray bar or have the flow adjusted to its lowest setting? You've probably already thought of these things, but I'm just throwing some ideas out there.

I really hope you can figure this out and that he gets better soon.
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:25 AM   #7 
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I am using the 1250 model but it is the black version. How do you clean your? Maybe I am doing something wrong. If I leave the carbon in does it do any harm? Also, if I want to remove it I am not sure if I am supposed to throw away the whole black box that the sponge holder clips on to or if the box opens and I can dump the carbon.

Crusoe is back to normal health in his medical tank, so I know for a fact that there is something in the 5 gallon that is upsetting him. I had him living in the tank without the filter for heater for 2 weeks and he was healthy, making bubble nests and everything. Then he got sick and I cannot figure out why. He is making bubble nests in his medical tank now because I bought him a soft plastic grass plant at PetSmart for 67 cents and he is having a love affair with it. So I know he is healthy and happy. I also know that he does not like being in the small space because he likes to swim fast back and forth but there is not enough room in the tiny tank. I am not sure what to do.

He is eating again but he is being a color snob and ONLY eating the green pellets from his color-enhancing pellets by Topfin (the only food in pellet form that PetSmart had left). I don't know if this is why his poop appears to be greenish-brown. He only ate two but that is all he ate.
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:29 AM   #8 
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Double-post. Oops.
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:38 AM   #9 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pataflafla View Post
Does his poop look strange at all or is he bloated a bit?

He could be starting up with parasites again. To be on the safe side, treat him and do the entire course of medication even if his slime coat looks to be coming off. It will not hurt him and he's most likely shedding it out of stress being in the hospital tank.

If you do any medication, continue with the full treatment even if you find it is something else that's wrong as splotchy treatment can let bacteria and parasites to build up a resistance to the medication which makes it harder to treat the next time around.

Id' start a full course with the Jungle as soon as you can in the hospital tank and keep things dark to let him relax.
ditto
this was the 1st thought that came into my mind.
I also suggest putting him back on the Jungle and do a full treatment.


As far as the carbon. I haven't heard that it is bad for the fish. But I've heard they can remove medications and fert for plants from the water. I also suggest you find a way to remove the carbon. I wonder if it could be holding any parasites.
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:52 AM   #10 
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Fishyfishy: I do not want to medicate him if he has no parasites because he can build up a tolerance to the medication or it can possibly hurt him. He is no longer lethargic, clamped, etc. He is back to being active, eating (even if he IS discriminating food based on color), and making bubble nests. I also see no signs of parasites on him. I considered gill flukes at one point but he appears to have no symptoms.

If Bounce could help me remove the carbon without breaking my filter, I'd really appreciate it. I did wonder if there was something bad in the carbon holder. It happens but I'd rather not have a deadly product in my fish's tank.
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