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Old 07-03-2012, 04:03 AM   #11 
WetBetta
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He appears overly stressed to me. Either from meds or water changes or from just being ill for a bit...

I would suggest raising your temp to around 82 degrees... slowly. You'd be surprised at what a difference it can make.

Keep the water level lower so he can reach air easier (as stated above). I use bubblers for ailing fish and fry tubs... just keep them on low so it doesn't knock him around any. Bettas can and do also absorb oxygen from the water as well. This will help him to not have to go to the surface for air as much.

IMHO... The shape of his container he is in is not good. Tall, skinny. I know you're getting ready to move him and all but just wanted to make a comment on that. Even with just a gallon of water... a container at 6" deep would be much better.

If he is in direct or any kind of bright light... move him or get him out from under it some how. Bettas don't like bright light and in fact should have a period of darkness... like nature.

I use Stress Coat when treating water. I know it works well for me. It helps to keep their slim coat well also.

It is my belief that moving him around from container back to container and so forth during water changes and such is not good. It causes stress. I always do my best to leave the fish in the container while doing water changes, with the exception of a 100% change of course.

Under normal circumstances, for a healthy fish, I agree as stated above I believe, that 100% water changes are a bit much. It washes away all of your beneficial bacteria needed for a healthy balance. Not to mention added stress to the fish.

I'm not by any means stating this is the case here, but, I do see a lot of "over attentive" betta owners. They observe one or two oddities and go overboard. Bettas have personalities all of their own. They will do strange things at times. I've had some that often sleep on their side, either on the bottom, or the top. I thought they had suddenly passed at first, but when I'd gently tap the side, they'd wake up and be completely normal. So, the best advice I can give anyone is to observe, observe, observe. Know what your betta's habits and movements are. But also realize that from time to time they will throw something new in. Forever entertaining for sure!

I hope this helps. And I hope Buster gets well soon! (yes, i'm one to make fishy kisses at my fish so lots of fishy kisses for Buster)

And keep us posted! All betta people like to know what courses of action really helped from situation to situation!!
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Old 07-03-2012, 10:04 AM   #12 
Oldfishlady
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You can poke a hole in the wrap, however, its really not needed...Since you will have several inches of head space to start with-this will be enough oxygen and when you open it daily to feed and water changes this will provide the gas exchange needs.

Keep us posted....
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Old 07-03-2012, 10:24 AM   #13 
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Hello and Welcome, I have the same Blue VT, that was in the same perdicament a few short weeks ago, I took him in as a rescue, and did the same treatment, I almost had to give up on him, for I saw the same lethargy, and refused food, and just sat in a corner, and barely breathing, it was the same as your lil guy..1st thing is tho I had a Kritter Keeper as a Hospital tank, and skipped one water change, and only treated with AQuarium salt, and then did a 75% water change, then a full 100%

I finally got him to eat with a Freeze dried Bloodworm, and then some pellets, micro pellets, by Hakari, or Omega one are some of the best ones to get fishy's appetite goiing, and then after I did the last water change, and he started taking food, I noticed his energy level peak, try that, and everything OFL suggests as well, but in a kk, because he will have some swim room when he's ready.. then you can slowly accliminate him to a bigger tank.. Good Luck hope all works out for your lil guy..:)
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:28 PM   #14 
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Go with OFL's advice, she's quite good
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Old 07-04-2012, 08:01 PM   #15 
beddini
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First off, I'd really want to say thank you to the bettafish.com community for taking the time correspond over my betta's issues and needs.. This is truly a wonderful environment to promote the sharing of info.. all based around the love for these special creatures.


UPDATE:



  • buster is still hanging out almost 100% at the top of the bowl, and he's a little less lethargic. Responds to interaction 50% of the time instead of maybe 5% of the time.
  • I've reduced the amount of water to about 1/2gal so he doesn't have to work to get to the top.. (but it seems unnecessary if he's effortlessly hanging out at the top)
  • yesterday and today he took on a full feeding of 3 pellets.. no problem. He will take them from the tip of my finger (I do this so it won't fall to the bottom and decay). He leaps some time to get them which I'm assuming is a good response.
  • plastic wrap has been in place for 24 hours (no holes)
  • as per OFL's recommendation I've only been doing 50% water changes daily (I use a turkey baster and sucked the gravel.. and try to limit any turbulence)
  • today I will get some epsom salt and see if I can find oak leaves.
  • the cycling 5 gallon tank (where he will go as soon as its ready) was started 6 days ago.. I've added ammonia once to it, and its about down to 2ppm.. I will add more when it's 1ppm. the tank is seeded with a substrate from a healthy tank and heated to 83 to speed up growth.

QUESTIONS:

  • last night before the water change the ammonia was .5ppm and then .25ppm post 50% water change. Makes sense. My question is it preferable to reduce the ammonia to 0% with a 100% water change (and potentially traumatize him) or let him endure a small amount of ammonia (.25ppm) and keep the water more consistent and traumatize him less?
  • is procuring dead/fallen oak leaves from an urban environment (NYC) a no-no even if they are washed thoroughly? I obviously won't be looking at ones laying in the dog park or out of garbage can or anything, and I don't think pesticides get sprayed.. but the urban environment may introduce some baddies that I don't know about.. is it worth the risk?
  • I mentioned that I feed him from the tip of my finger.. is this a bad thing? Just curious what the consensus was.. if I'm training him for some negative behavior.. I figure I'm sort of simulating a bug or something flying over.
  • I bought some LIVE bloodworms yesterday, but hesitated, and in the interest of maintaining his precarious health.. I found out that you could potentially introduce bad news bacteria/fungus... so I aborted.. Am I being too cautious?
  • I also have 2 anubias sitting in the small (now 1/2 gallon) bowl with him for comfort and potentially to filter the ammonia. These were brought in about the same time he also got massively lethargic. Could there be a correlation with the plants more so than with the bettafix or 100% water changes he was subject to?
  • the dorsal fin is always clamped unless he's swimming rapidly, or flaring. Is this normal or is cold/uncomfortable?
  • His bowl is not heated, but its been ranging between 76-80 over the past few days.. should I take his bowl and insert it directly into the heated tank (currently cycling with massive amounts of ammonia) to keep it locked at something like 82 that WetBetta suggests?

@Wetbetta.. you make an excellent point about some owners being overzealous.. I read you loud and clear!!

thank you all..

-a
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Old 07-04-2012, 09:39 PM   #16 
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Quote:
is procuring dead/fallen oak leaves from an urban environment (NYC) a no-no even if they are washed thoroughly? I obviously won't be looking at ones laying in the dog park or out of garbage can or anything, and I don't think pesticides get sprayed.. but the urban environment may introduce some baddies that I don't know about.. is it worth the risk?
Are you looking for tannins from the oak? I don't know if I would trust anything that has been on the ground in NYC unless its in your own yard.
I get Indian Almond Leaves via a seller on ebay with the ID Amy-lim. She is in singapore. She grades her leaves A, B, C, ect. Anyways, even if you get her C grade leaves, almost all of them are pretty big, some may have some holes or whatnot but everytime I get them, 99% of them are in good shape. Some of her auctions, she offers free shipping :)
http://stores.ebay.com/Amys-Ketapang...id=p4340.l2563

Quote:
  • His bowl is not heated, but its been ranging between 76-80 over the past few days.. should I take his bowl and insert it directly into the heated tank (currently cycling with massive amounts of ammonia) to keep it locked at something like 82 that WetBetta suggests?
If you can tape a cup or something inside the heated tank, that would be best as it would keep his cup at a steady temp. Without a heater, the temp may drop a night and going from warm to cold isn;t good for the betta.

Did you quarentine the plants before you added it to his water? Im not sure of live plants are really that much of a threat to fish but I know alot of peple say to quarentine them.

Last edited by Tikibirds; 07-04-2012 at 09:41 PM.
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Old 07-04-2012, 11:44 PM   #17 
beddini
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Tikibirds,

for $10 it seems worth it to not worry, and potentially get something that's arguably closer to the true habitat of the betta. I just ordered

as for the heater.. I've been running the new cycling tank hot (84 degrees) to get the bacteria to flourish faster. I've lowered it, and when it balances out.. I'll drop him in a protected bowl within the tank. great idea.

the nubias in the tank were NOT quarantined..

as for the group.. Buster's bowl is currently at a little more than 1ppm Ammonia after daily 50% water changes. I'd really like to know if its more important to get the bowl down to 0 with a 100% change (and potentially stress the fish), than keep up with 50% changes with a seemingly constant amount of ammonia running at about 1-1.5ppm.



thank you!

-a
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:14 AM   #18 
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What kind of testing products are you using and have you tested the source water for ammonia....the Nutrafin betta conditioner is the only dechlorinator you are using correct...double check the dosage needs if you have chloramine in your water

What is the source water---city supplied tap?....with the 6.7 pH...is your water naturally this low of pH and do you know if it is soft or low KH/GH too...also does the water go through a water softening unit on the house and if so, is it the kind that uses salt...if it is....you need to bypass that.

Other possible source of ammonia could be from the plants-are they thriving or any dead leaves...etc.....nothing in the tank that could decomp
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Old 07-05-2012, 02:33 PM   #19 
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I think he look ties. Fin rot? I did not see it. I see you put him in a small cup that is good.

I adopt a big old man betta with fin rot and popeye. I treat him 2 cycle with myacin: 5 days with antibiotic and water change + then rest 2 days without antibiotic + 5 more days with antiotic.

I used small cup to save the antibiotic and money.

He is now eat like a horse. He only flare at female and kind of chicken out if a male flare at him. He is a huge betta male. I guess he is very old.
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:52 PM   #20 
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I would stick with only 50% water changes at this point. And yes, I'd still continue to keep the water shallow even though he spends a lot of time at the top.

I personally feed most all of my fish with my finger at some point. I think it's a good idea to get them to do so in case you need to feed them a pea at some point. It also gets them use to you so they don't get so stressed when you go poking around their house. However, bettas do jump any how. I have lost a few due to not having a cover on their container. Do keep a cover over the top or the water level low enough that they can not jump out.

I think the protein in the blood worms is needed by your fish and far out weighs the slight possibility of anything being introduced. They are frozen right? Freezing kills bacteria and such, but is not to say that it isn't possible that blood worms may still promote it to some degree. I use a toothpick to pick out a few worms and give to my fish.

If you can float him in the heated tank... I'd do it. IMHO, a steady temp of 82 would be best for Buster right now.

I'd buy leaves in your situation... Unless you can take a ride out to the country and grab some from a known source.
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