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Old 07-06-2012, 06:23 PM   #1 
starrlamia
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Copper genetics, just need to talk this out

Hello friends

In reading around about genetics and breeding etc, Ive half decided that if I do end up breeding I would very much like to breed a copper line, as I am completely in love with the colouring.

I am still trying to wrap my head around copper genetics, Ive read the sticky and a few of the sites I was linked to in my previous post on genetics.

So my understanding is that copper is genetically dominant over other colours is this correct? I can see the descriptions in the genetics thread about breeding copper to blues/steel/green, red etc but what about when you breed copper with specific colour patterns like butterfly, dragon scale, multis etc.

Not that I will be expirimenting with colour until Id get a good line of finnage and body etc (#1 goal would be show quality fishies).

Sometimes I need to type this out and have a discussion for my brain to wrap around concepts, I appologize if its annoying!
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Old 07-06-2012, 10:32 PM   #2 
WetBetta
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I think you're confusing the under color (under the scales) with color patterns on the body and fins.
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Old 07-07-2012, 01:09 AM   #3 
Enkil
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I had a copper marble dragon female. The copper was under the dragon scaling and on her fins.
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Old 07-07-2012, 01:16 AM   #4 
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To understand how copper works, you've got to understand the basics of iridescence in bettas. There are basically two types of iridescence-

Normal spread iridescence is what you see on most wild type and sometimes pet store fish. They usually have one or two rows of scales that show iridescence, and the branching on the tail is sometimes irid. Looks like this-


Due to selective breeding and cross-breeding lines to wild types, the spread iridescence was created, which means the scales and fins are completely iridescent. Some bettas with spread iridescence have unmasked heads, others have masked heads. (This refers to the spread of the iridescence around the gill-to-mouth region.) Spread iridescent bettas look like this-

(Full mask)


(Un-Masked)


Copper bettas are technically co-dominant. Crossing a copper to a non-metallic blue betta will result in metallic blue offspring, and inbreeding the offspring will result in some copper and some metallic blues. The same goes for masking on a copper betta- unmasked x masked = some with no masks, some with partial masks. Inbreeding the offspring will result in better masking.

As far as copper x butterfly, look at the example below-

Copper x Blue Butterfly = Metallic Blue (Copper heterozygous), various butterfly patterns on offspring, some without patterning.

Copper x Offspring above = Some copper, some metallic blues, some with various butterfly patterns, some without.

Butterfly is very difficult to breed consistently as it really changes from fish to fish. You may have a fish in one spawn that has the perfect 50/50 color split, while the rest are 70/30, 60/40, etc.
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Old 07-07-2012, 01:25 AM   #5 
indjo
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Copper x marble/butterfly/multi/other patterns works similarly as any irid color.

Copper = single metallic (mostly) allele. Dragon = double metallic allele. Because of this, copper is often used as dragon mixes and may eventually produce black dragon plus other colors that might be hidden in their genetic background. Black dragon's body is usually more silver than , say a red dragon's body which is more white.
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Old 07-07-2012, 06:31 AM   #6 
starrlamia
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thank you!
Genetics is not my forte and sometimes I get it right away reading and sometimes I need it explained in a different way. Ive found all the websites have the exact same information which doesnt help someone who needs it explained differently to understand.
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Old 07-08-2012, 09:00 PM   #7 
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Sometimes I need things explained differently as well! :) Thanks for asking this question, Ive been eyeballing a copper male but wasnt sure what to spawn him w if he ended up mine.
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