Goldfish with SBD

[Neil D]

Test Results for the Following:
* Ammonia Level 0
* Nitrite Level 0
* Nitrate level 0
* Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.7
* Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.6
Other Required Info:
* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API Test Kit
* Water temperature? 74-75* F
* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 38g, 3 mo
* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Marineland Penguin 350
* How often do you change the water and how much? 25-40% weekly
* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Last Saturday 7/21
* How many fish in the tank and their size? 3, fits in the palm of hand. Ryukin
* What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime
* What do you feed your fish and how often? Daily, 3 pellets each.
* Any new fish added to the tank? no
* Any medications added to the tank? no
* List previous issues experienced (dropsy, SBD, etc.) none
* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? no
* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Fish is not swimming properly. Alive, no external issues. Floating with current.
My goldfish isn't in control of how he's swimming. I have a net around him so he doesn't get pushed around by the filter current.

YouTube video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_45wnsnZwg

[BlueRose7]

Well, there are a couple easy things you can try to relieve your goldfish first, which you can get the stuff for at a grocery store.

-First, you can try peas. Yep, peas. You can use frozen or canned, as long as they are unsalted. Defrost them if they are frozen, take the coating and the hard, pointy part off (easily visible inside the coating), break it up a little, and drop it in so your fishie can see it. If the fish doesn't eat it right away, leave the pieces or try again later.
-Second, you can use epsom salts in case your fish is constipated. You can get it in the health section of your grocery store (it comes in a carton). Epsom salts work like a laxative and can relieve fluid buildup in fish. You can add 1/8 tsp. per 5 gallons directly to the aquarium (for your tank I'd just round it to a full teaspoon). This won't hurt the other fish.

-You can alternatively bathe/dip the one with SBD. This is more stressful on the fish, but works faster. To do this, take some tank water and put it in a separate container. Add 1 tablespoon per gallon to the bucket (amount seems to vary by source, but this is one given ratio) and mix it in. Add the fish and let it swim in the mix for 15-25 minutes. I'd have a container of normal water to let it reacclimate in before you put it back in the tank. I've heard somewhere before that fish can fall asleep during baths, but will wake up once placed back in normal water. *shrug* A salt dip for goldfish is sometimes thought of as a miracle cure - I brought a fish on the brink of death back with the aid of a salt dip once. I'd try the other stuff first, though.

-If you have to, you can try treating for bacterial disease if the above doesn't work. I'd treat for both gram positive and gram negative diseases - they are diseases with different symptoms and I think it's hard to know which it is. So, Maracyn and Maracyn II together, triple sulfate alone (I think), or other combinations you can search online depending on your local availability should treat both.

I hope something I've said can help you in relieving your fish. Let us know how things go and good luck!

[Neil D]

I did the peas, but he didn't eat them. Currently, he's in a 2g bucket so the filter won't shove him everywhere. I fed peas to his two tank mates though, and they ate. I hope he makes it through the night...

[thekoimaiden]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but it might not be an illness thing. Ryukin are notorious for having severe swim bladder problems to the point where some keepers have taken to building mesh slings for them to keep them below the water line. This is a great article about the fancy goldfish swim bladder and the problems that they have: Swim Bladder/Flip Over

What brand of pellets are you feeding him?

Peas won't do much to relieve constipation. Blanched spinach is better for that.

Can you get a breeder net? It would be much better to have him back in the main tank where the filter is cycled rather than in a bucket where the ammonia is just building up.

Oh dear. I looked at the video, and I don't think it's a swim bladder problem. I have a ryukin who gets floaty after eating and has some swim bladder problems, but I've never seen him be that listless. Swim bladder does buoyancy, and a goldfish with swim bladder problems will either float and try to get down or always be sinking and trying to get back up. Tipping over is a sign of equilibrium loss. There might be some kind of internal infection. What does his poop look like?

[BlueRose7]

Did the temperature spike in your area? While that wouldn't cause the SBD, maybe a floating bag with an ice cube or two would provide some relief and make him a little more active? (I watched the video and your poor baby seemed lethargic....) Not sure if that would do anything, but I keep my tank in a basement, since goldfish are cooler water fish, and their tank stays about 70-72 degrees F. 75 is about the top of their comfort zone. If he keeps sinking, you might also hold him under the filter stream every once in a while for some good oxygen (in a net or in a rag in your hand).
Sorry - I'm going off my own research and experience; I've got a rescue goldfish with permanent swim bladder damage due to pet department negligence/severe disease. However, she's never had SBD quite like this.
You could try coppersafe for parasites/appetite stimulation. I've heard good things about it. You could also try other veggies. You don't see any red dots/stringy things, do you? Or tiny little green dots on them? Not blaming you - if your goldfish are relatively new and came from a store with a supplier like our local supplier, they could have had the beginnings of parasites. (Saving a group of goldfish from parasites is how I ended up with my goldfish.)

Really, from your video, the other two look healthy and fine, but the other does look like it's slipping (but not from parasites). That salt dip is a last resort, but, if you feel like you may lose the fish, you might look it up and see if you feel like it's the right option for you. Some sources suggest several short dips, like this link you can copy and paste:
http://goldfish-emergency.com/viewpage.php?page_id=14
I think this is actually the one I used on the one I dipped.I thought I'd lose her that night afterward, but she recovered, and is thriving today.
I REALLY wish I could help you more; I love my goldfish like I'm sure you love yours. I wish the best of luck to you and I'll keep checking in case you have any updates or questions I might be able to answer. We have 11 tanks and, while I feel pretty confident in my fishkeeping abilities when things work out a lot of the time, these times when something is really difficult to treat make me feel utterly helpless, so I know how you must feel. Hang in there and don't give up yet!

[BlueRose7]

Just saw this: thekoimaiden's advice is good; I agree, it's not like the swim bladder I've seen. Just thought I'd add, then, if your fish survives, but has problems swimming from now on, you can add tall plants your fish can sit in. I use a betta log for the fish with the problem, too. She uses these things to sit in and rest.

[Neil D]

Thanks for the help guys. He seems to be doing better today, at least he's not on his side. He's now bottom sitting upright. He swims around the bottom rim of the bucket. I just did a water change on his quarantine with old tank water. Maybe I'll try the salt bath. Is aquarium salt the proper kind?

[BlueRose7]

Yes, aquarium salt is fine. Aquarium, epsom, and pond salts are just examples of commonly used salts. The thing that matters is not to have an iodized salt like table salt, which you probably already knew. Aquarium salt is perfectly fine for the bath. I'd do it in the separate container - since goldfish don't need salt, you'd want to take it back out of the main tank with water changes eventually. With the separate bucket/tupperware/bowl, you can just throw the water out. You can look at that link or any other source you may have found to guide you; different people do the bath/dip different ways, but the general idea is the same.

I'm so glad your fish made it through the night and seems a little better! (Upright at least is great!) Hang in there. It's wonderful to see people care so much about their fish.

[Neil D]

Thanks for all the help. Yeah, I'll probably do the salt bath tomorrow. He still didn't eat but he tried, he kinda spit it out. I fed him peas, because I think the pellets led to this issue in the first place.