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Old 07-28-2012, 03:17 AM   #11 
goldfishyman
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I tried coffee filters to filter out vinegar eels so that I could rinse them and not affect ph. They went right through. I wonder if it will stop micro worms.
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:56 AM   #12 
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Your experiment sounds a lot like how I spawn in the warmer months-except that I don't have any problems with spawning.

My temps will range from 50'sF to 100'sF and it doesn't seem to cause any problems with either the breeders or nest of eggs, new born fry, older fry...etc....They seem to tolerate the gradual temp changes and even the sudden extreme changes when it rains or I flood them with the cold well water when the water gets well over 110F.

I have even accidentally moved fry trapped in the brine shrimp net to little bowls of water when I am collecting larva and find them weeks later-fine and grown getting mass water changes from rain since the bowl was under the drip line of the house....

If your 10gal tank is full to the top...add a second female and see if that will help and stop changing the water-just top off and don't let it get too much direct sun-cover the top if needed with slats so you get shade but good air circulation and use floating plants like water lettuce....Let it get so dark you can't see in it-add more oak leaf and some live plants to float...also allow some of the leaves to float on top for the male to nest under-mine seem to like the dark brown leaves better than the yellow leaves.

Usually its the barometric pressure they are responding to with the storms

I like to use a brine shrimp net for my microworms-they will slowly work their way through it for the fry to eat, but personally I like newly hatched BBS.

Love to see some pics....
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Old 07-28-2012, 12:04 PM   #13 
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Your experiment sounds a lot like how I spawn in the warmer months-except that I don't have any problems with spawning.

My temps will range from 50'sF to 100'sF and it doesn't seem to cause any problems with either the breeders or nest of eggs, new born fry, older fry...etc....They seem to tolerate the gradual temp changes and even the sudden extreme changes when it rains or I flood them with the cold well water when the water gets well over 110F.

I have even accidentally moved fry trapped in the brine shrimp net to little bowls of water when I am collecting larva and find them weeks later-fine and grown getting mass water changes from rain since the bowl was under the drip line of the house....

If your 10gal tank is full to the top...add a second female and see if that will help and stop changing the water-just top off and don't let it get too much direct sun-cover the top if needed with slats so you get shade but good air circulation and use floating plants like water lettuce....Let it get so dark you can't see in it-add more oak leaf and some live plants to float...also allow some of the leaves to float on top for the male to nest under-mine seem to like the dark brown leaves better than the yellow leaves.

Usually its the barometric pressure they are responding to with the storms

I like to use a brine shrimp net for my microworms-they will slowly work their way through it for the fry to eat, but personally I like newly hatched BBS.

Love to see some pics....
Thanks for your input.

I have about 30 oak leaves in the tank. The water is pretty dark. just before I went to bed I was thinking of going to Michael's to look at the possible materials I could use to filter the worms. When I woke up I had the idea of using silk. Pretty much like the brine shrimp netting. Perhaps if i can't find any silk I will test the brine shrimp net I have and possible sacrifice one since they aren't too expensive.

I have been trying to decap Brine shrimp eggs and then hatching without salt. I found an article online where a guy hatched this way just using baking soda. So far no success. perhaps I needed a heater or a higher PH. It was my hope I could introduce the eggs hatched without salt into the tank and the bbs would be able to live in the tank with the spawn and get eaten as needed. lol

I am pondering a way of modifying a tank to be able to create artificial low pressure to trigger spawning.
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Old 07-28-2012, 01:17 PM   #14 
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Since brine shrimp are salt water...the salt is going to be really important

Have you thought about or tried Fairy shrimp-they are freshwater and might do what you are wanting-They are a bit more expensive than brine shrimp-but easy to hatch-The eggs do need to dry out to hatch again if they reproduce for you-that is one of the down sides of using them long term or to keep them going non-stop.

When you are doing outside spawn with some dirt, dried leaves and live plants you will get natural critters that will start to culture in the water too that the fry can feed on...lots of microorganisms that are great for the first few weeks-Then the daphania and with the mosquito that will lay rafts of eggs and when they first hatch are small enough for Betta fry as young as 2 weeks. Betta fry can eat food much larger than you think-plus they will tear food apart and then along with the other fry that fight over the food...kind of a tug-O-war ripping the food up so that they can swallow it without problems.

I also will add green water to my containers-mostly daphnia and other critters that feed on green water/algae. I have buckets of water in the sun that I will add grass clipping, hay, hand full of dirt...etc.....and once it is green I will add cups of this water to my outside containers with fry.

I have never had to use any processed foods to feed any of my outside spawns/fry.....and they grow out fast and healthy....

When I start a 5gal bucket for an outside spawn-I fill it about half way with dried oak leaves...TMTC but if I had to guess....100's of leaves.....then I will fill half way up with my hard well water and finish it with some rain water that already has lots of microorganism-Then I add a bunch of stem plant clippings to float and some water lettuce. I acclimate my breeders-usually 1 male and 2 females and let the games begin....lol....
Usually I will have spawn within the hour and I will collect the first nest/eggs to artificial hatch-then about every 2-3 days I will have a new nest/eggs....Depending on what my goal is with that set of breeders I may or may not collect every nest/eggs-but I always leave at least one nest/eggs every third time(more or less) for the male to tend to-as well as when I collect the nest/eggs I rarely get them all.

I don't have problems with either males or females eating the eggs/fry at any stage, however, I do have problems with older fry eating younger fry and try to collect the biggest on a regular basis and move to a different container for grow-out.

This method has been working well for me for several years-my biggest problem...lots of fry-but I do have a buyer for every single one of them-plus I do cull hard...which I feel is really important with any method.
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Old 07-29-2012, 12:42 AM   #15 
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I'm having a really weird problem my females are always kicking the males asses. Just got home and my crown tail no longer has spikes. He looks ok and still chases the female around. Usually the other way around for me before.

When I bred Bettas about 9 years ago, I noticed that fish I kept in water with leaves seem to be healthier than the ones that lived in filtered tanks.

I had also put very small fry into a 50 gallon plastic barrel that had tons of green water and bugs in it. The fry grew really fast and were fully colored with finnage in about a month. I never bothered to feed them. I just took a peek and they popped up to the top.

I have also wanted to figure how large of an area male bettas would stake out for their territory. One day I hope I can get a really large/long aquarium or maybe even a pond and dump a bunch inside to see what happens. If they will claim territory and stay with in the area they claim or will it be an all out battle.

OFL I guess I'll go gather more oak leaves. I was also planning on getting some plants tomorrow. Was supposed to do that today but didn't make it to the store in time. I had made too many other side trips.

As for the micro worm feeder I found the silk and tried it. So far not seeing any getting through. Perhaps by tomorrow I will find them on the bottom. I also toss a bunch of micro worms in and they did not pass through the Silk. Funny that they went right through the coffee filters but will not go through silk. Not a good thing for the Micro worm feeder but a good way for me to filter the vinegar eels so not a total loss. I will continue to experiment with other materials if I do not find the micro worms on the bottom by tomorrow morning.
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Old 07-29-2012, 01:06 AM   #16 
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What kind of silk did you end up using? Or what did you get the silk off of? I'm interested to know the thread count
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Old 07-29-2012, 02:23 AM   #17 
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What kind of silk did you end up using? Or what did you get the silk off of? I'm interested to know the thread count
Solid Silk Dupioni no clue on the thread count.
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:39 AM   #18 
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After about the 3rd generation and some selective breeding I have been able to keep multi males and female together in heavy planted tanks from 20-75gal long term. Right now I have about 30 8mo-2 year old males outside in a 250gal tank-no problems but it does have mass amounts of plants. All my tanks are mass planted.
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Old 07-29-2012, 12:44 PM   #19 
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OFL I am curious, what is the secret to being able to do that? Housing males and females together. What do you select for? I think that is AMAZING
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Old 07-29-2012, 04:02 PM   #20 
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Its a long process and years of selective breeding to get that happy medium so-to-speak. So that you can keep them together and yet still have enough aggression so they will still flare and spawn but not fight-they do square off on occasion but don't make contact.

In the beginning I had problems with being able to put the male back in the tank with the others after I removed them to spawn.

Its not totally without issue and I will still get a male here and there that can't tolerate being kept together or a male that isn't accepted back into the tank or causes trouble after they spawn-but on the most part they all live happy together.
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