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Old 08-20-2012, 09:02 AM   #1 
Pogthefish
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What the heck? (religious rant)

First off, I'm not bashing religion, its just some strange stuff I have seen.

Ok so this family I know who are all really strong catholics, also don't believe in birth control, had a 5 year old son die recently, and heres what happened. They weren't watching him very well and they had the child lock on the car, and he got in but couldn't get out :'( Thats not my problem though, my problem is that while he was in a coma, they had him confirmed. What does that do exactly? All it does is that he is an "adult" in the church. They even chose his saint name, like really? Were they really that desperate to bring religion into this? Can someone explain this to me? Confirmation is literally supposed to e a statement made by the person that they accept to being catholic themselves, making this decision as an adult. Baptism is the parents sayign they accept for the child while they are too young, so can you even get confirmed while you are in a coma? I mean... also, does it count if your parents forced you to get confirmed? Like I know kids who say their parents said they would beat them if they didn't get confirmed. I'm not bashing catholics, I'm just wondering if people can explain this stuff to me..
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Old 08-20-2012, 09:55 AM   #2 
LittleWatty
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I'm a confirmed catholic (though, in reality, I'm more agnostic than catholic. Only did it to please my mother), and this doesn't make sense to me. You have to go to "school" as it were to get confirmed. You have to choose a saint name that means something to you personally. And you have to be at least 15 (I think). I bet the kid didn't even have his first communion yet, which is kind of necessary to become confirmed.

I'll be honest, I don't like religion. I'll let people have their own beliefs, and I won't argue with them, but don't force them on me.
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Old 08-20-2012, 10:04 AM   #3 
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Secretly, I'm atheist, but I'm confirmed and all that stuff, same reason, to please my parents.. well they pressured me into it by saying I can't go to the catholic school I like If I'm not confirmed. But yeah. :/ I'm really confused and sorta angered by this because it seems that they just wanted to bring religion into it :(
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Old 08-20-2012, 10:35 AM   #4 
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Maybe he was confirmed in a different way? People are usually only confirmed if they are capable of going to Mass by themselves. Maybe they talked to him beforehand? Maybe they meant blessed instead of confirmed? If a priest saw him, he proabably just blessed him in case he passes on. They do that a lot to sick people.
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:06 AM   #5 
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I will ask one question before I answer your questions. ^_^;

Are you sure he was receiving the Sacrament of Confirmation and not the Sacrament of Anointing of the Sick? Both involve spreading holy oil on the forehead of a church member. One is for acceptance into the church as an adult in front of the congregation (Confirmation) and the other is for anointment to cleanse someone who is very ill of sin and evil in the privacy of a sick bed (Anointing of the Sick). I can't see a 5 year old having serious sins and evil intentions anymore than I can see a 5 year old accepted as an adult church member. But at least anointing of the sick sounds sane. They also look extremely similar to someone who is passing by and doesn't know much about catholic Sacraments. XD


However, a person only has to be baptized in order to be Confirmed. So technically, as weird as it seems the parents weren't breaking any rules by having their 5 year old son Confirmed. There is a lot of room for which age is "the right age" to be Confirmed. I think in the case of the 5 year old, it was used more to "Confirm his Baptism" than it was to "Confirm him as an adult." I really can't speak for the family, but that would be my guess. :)

Now on to the rest of your questions. XD

1) "Baptism is the parents saying they accept for the child while they are too young, so can you even get confirmed while you are in a coma?"

I know I will be raising my children catholic and I don't even have kids yet. XD I will catch hell from some people for that choice and get praise from other for that choice. Since I can't win everyone over with either choice, I made a judgment call. One of the things about being a parent is deciding what is best for a child even if others, the child included, think you are a crazy person for making your choice. Do kids like eating veggies? No, but if they live off of cake and ice cream they will be obese with diabetes. Do kids like going to bed early? Nope, but they need sleep to function. Do kids like church? Probably not, but they will get God along with veggies and bedtimes.

So that's why kids get Baptized and First Communion (-ed? I can't make that a verb XD) against their will. Parents have to raise their kids somehow and religion is on the table for the lucky (or "lucky" depending on your point of view) children born into religious families. I already explained why it can be done while the child was in a coma. I hope the reason why they did it without his consent is a bit more clear. :)

2) "I mean... also, does it count if your parents forced you to get confirmed?"

The quick answer is Yes.

A proper Confirmation is a rite of passage that takes a few months of study and preparation. Becoming an adult member of the church I would leave up to the child to decide. The child should pick his/her own saint name, design his/her or sash (it has a proper name I keep forgetting T_T) and all the other bells and whistles involved with a proper Confirmation. But some parents can be a bit...overbearing to say the least. Especially since a child becomes an adult in the church while he/she is a legal minor.

So, if the child doesn't say he/she is under duress and goes through all the hoops to adulthood in silence, the Confirmation counts. I personally think that being confirmed should not be forced on a child because it is a bigger step than either of the other two sacraments received during childhood. As I said above, a parent has to raise a child in whatever way seems best. But some parents are a bit too...determined to make their children be the person they want their children to be. I kind of lump up "Get Confirmed or go to Hell!" and "Go to college or live your life in a gutter!" types of mindsets together. : /

3) "Were they really that desperate to bring religion into this?"

It isn't a pleasant thought, but religion would be a part of my child's passing. Catholics are Catholics whether they are being born, living, dying, or dead. Age has nothing to do with that fact. Even if my theoretical 5 year old could communicate, I would still have power over his secular and religious affairs until his passing at an early age. v_v
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:14 AM   #6 
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Isn't confirmation supposed to be done at a later age - like 15 or so?
Maybe they did it because they knew he would die and wanted to make sure he was going to heaven or whatever.

I made it to communion which was when I was 8 but gave up on christanity after that. I was first baptised as a baby as Lutheran but my other grandma had issues with this so I was rebaptised catholic when I was older. Either way, I do not do the christanity thing.
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:16 AM   #7 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pogthefish View Post
Secretly, I'm atheist, but I'm confirmed and all that stuff, same reason, to please my parents.. well they pressured me into it by saying I can't go to the catholic school I like If I'm not confirmed. But yeah. :/ I'm really confused and sorta angered by this because it seems that they just wanted to bring religion into it :(
Oops....since you were raised catholic you do know the difference between Confirmation and Anointing of the Sick. My bad.

I've never heard of a catholic school that would need you to be confirmed to attend. Since the most common age2 to be Confirmed in western church is between 14-17, how would anyone attend a catholic grade school or high school?

Raising a child Catholic is one thing. But twisting facts and reality to keep them in the faith always ticks me off.
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:54 AM   #8 
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This year I received the sacrament of Confirmation.
To be talking about this in the way you did, you should get a better understanding of it before you say what you did...
Confirmation is a sacrament in which the Holy Spirit comes to us in a special way to make is strong and perfect Catholics and witnesses of Jesus Christ.
If you said "What's the point if it only made him an adult"
then what is the point of being Baptized? After all, it only makes you part of the church. And First Communion? It only allows you to become one with Jesus Christ.

I'm in a bad mood today so don't be offended.
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Old 08-20-2012, 01:02 PM   #9 
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Its ok, and they said they had him confirmed, I was not actually there. I guess its their business. Do you think they will have their kids taken away for what happened to him?
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Old 08-20-2012, 01:33 PM   #10 
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My dad was raised catholic, and thankfully he didn't push it on me. Not that I would have even accepted it. But you see they can push in on you all they want but if you don't believe it doesn't mean jack squat.

I personally am against pushing religion on kids, it's not right and kids don't need it for they're innocent. I'm 100% against most mainstream realigions as they seem to want to reinforce the concept of "hell" which is a creation of man to scare people to follow.

I see it this way communion, baptism, and any other ceremony you want to bring into it is a delusion, same as those who practice witchcraft saying there's a three-fold law. It's only in place to prevent anyone from straying from a belief or think in a certain way.

I also think it should be illegal to force upon a child anything having to do with their body or thought until they are old enough to have a say, and that means 18!
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