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Old 08-10-2012, 04:42 AM   #1 
JessSH
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Damage from Ammonia Poisoning, HITH or something else?

Hi. I’ve had Adonis for almost 3 weeks & he seems to have a lot of problems, so I have several questions. Most recently, he has developed 4 small gray lesions on the side of his head on Tuesday. He’s had 2 of these lesions before in the same spot on approx. 7/29 which disappeared in 2 days with AQ salt treatment (did 3 days total just in case). I diagnosed him with Hole In The Head the first time & I believe that’s what he has now, but one thing is making me hesitate. Monday night when I did a 100% water change & he jumped out of the tank as I was trying to cup him (I try to avoid nets since he needs to regrow fins & they’re very delicate). He landed on my down blanket & fell maybe 6 inches. I always keep a very close eye on him, so I’m positive he did NOT have the lesions before jumping & they were not there that night after the jump. They appeared the next morning. Is this HITH? Or is it possible that these may be a delayed result of the jump? If HITH, should I continue AQ Salt or is it time for actual medication now? I really prefer to stay as conservative as possible, but if he needs meds I'll definitely get them. He has no other symptoms of illness. He’s active, loves his food, pooping normally, no clamped fins or fading color.

I rescued Adonis from PetCo on 7/19 & he had ammonia poisoning, fin rot & curved spine. I tested his cup water & the ammonia was 4. His water was yellow & he had shreds of fin on the bottom of the bowl from biting. He was extremely stressed & it took his a solid 4 days before he ate & gained enough energy to start swimming around. It doesn’t appear that his fins have grown at all & my other fish grew almost 1cm of fin the first month I had him. He is still very nervous & prefers to hide in his cave or behind it. He also does not like artificial light, but for some reason LOVES natural light. I open my blinds every day for my plants & he immediately comes out of the cave & becomes more active. I ended up moving his tank so he’s close to the window light, but isn’t in it directly & when I open the blinds he comes out & goes up to his betta hammock & relaxes there. It reminds me of my cat sunning herself. Could liking sunlight be a weird symptom or is being in indirect sunlight somehow causing an issue? Is it possible the ammonia level in his cup caused permanent damage & be the cause of (or part of the problem) his illnesses & no fin growth? I just got a master test kit 4 days ago, so I just found out the pH is higher than optimum (7.6). I've read OldFishLady's sticky on the Nitrogen Cycle, I believe, & she said not to adjust pH except in rare cases because bettas can adapt, plus I read how difficult & possibly lethal it can be if done to quickly. Am I right thinking it's ok, or is it something I should look into?

I extremely frustrated with myself because he seems to start to recover from an illness & then he gets sick in a week or less. Plus, all of my other fish are treated the same way, except the water changes are done every other day. They are also all PetCo rescues (except one) & all of them had a ammonia level of 4 or higher, as well as other issues that needed treatment. However, after the initial treatment period, all are very healthy & thriving. Adonis is the only one with continuing issues. What am I doing wrong? I thought the #1 cause of illnesses, generally speaking, were poor water conditions, followed by poor diet. I clean his tank every day, alternating 50% & 100% water changes. When I do 100% water changes I put him in his own cup & if he’s being a pill I occasionally use his net. Both are designated for him ONLY & are kept separately in a bag so there is no possible way it could be contaminated from my other fish (who are all healthy BTW). They got tossed when he had the lesions previously & this new set will get tossed when he heals this time. Additionally when I do the 100% change I rinse the tank, décor, heater & sand in scalding hot water then rinse it all in lukewarm water that has been treated with SeaChem. I have my food info below.

Sorry this is so long, I really wanted to give all the info I could think of. I would really appreciate any help. I have included a blurry pic of the lesions. He was getting too stressed when I kept trying to get pics tonight, so I will try to get better ones posted tomorrow.

Housing
What size is your tank? 1.75 gal
What temperature is your tank? 78
Does your tank have a filter? No
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? None

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Omega One & live bloodworms (locally raised only)
How often do you feed your betta fish? 3 Omega One pellets twice a day, replace pellets with 2 bloodworms on Saturday PM, fast Sunday.

Maintenance
How often do you perform a water change? Every day
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? Alternating 50% & 100%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? SeaChem Prime & VitaChem

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
pH: 7.6
Hardness: Don’t test
Alkalinity: Don’t test

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? 4 small lesions on head
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? It hasn’t.
When did you start noticing the symptoms? Tuesday
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? AQ Salt, increased water changes to 100% daily, covered tank partly at night before bed with towel because artificial light seems to stress him out.
Does your fish have any history of being ill? Yes, rescued 7/19/12. Had ammonia poisoning, fin rot, & curved spine (which has mostly straightened out), treated with AQ salt for 3 days. Then had 2 lesions in same spot as current lesions on approx. 7/29/12 which disappeared within 2 days of salt treatment
How old is your fish (approximately)? 1 year?
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Last edited by JessSH; 08-10-2012 at 04:49 AM.
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:51 PM   #2 
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He's just too stressed, even without flash, to get a better pic. Sorry
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Old 08-10-2012, 08:48 PM   #3 
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Sorry I can't tell anything from your photos, but I would recommend using nets instead of trying to cup him. A net would have done much less damage than falling 6inches. If you fell 6x your body length..about 30 feet would you be okay?

I don't think it's HITH.

Also most pet store fish have health issues from lousy breeding that may show 6 months/1year later. Your fish may be one of them.

Gotta head out, but good luck.

Hopefully someone else could give you better advice.
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Old 08-11-2012, 04:32 AM   #4 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JessSH View Post
Hi. I’ve had Adonis for almost 3 weeks & he seems to have a lot of problems, so I have several questions. Most recently, he has developed 4 small gray lesions on the side of his head on Tuesday. He’s had 2 of these lesions before in the same spot on approx. 7/29 which disappeared in 2 days with AQ salt treatment (did 3 days total just in case).
You actually may be dealing with mycos.. fish TB. Those type lesions are typical, as is fin rotting and loss of condition. Many often get a swim bladder issue, then bloat up while looking like skin and bones. Got a friend that has gone thru this and had to destroy all fish in their fish room and throw away plants and anything that could not be disinfected. It can stay in the environment for years and can be passed down in eggs and sperm.

Make sure that fish is fAR away from other fish and watch cross comtamination. Soak anyting used on it in a strong bleach solution for hours.. 24 if you can. Kanamyacin may help ease the condition if you get it on food an into them. When/if you lose him put in ziplock bag and land fill him. Do not put into a water system and would not even fertilize roses as can stay viable there.

Columnaris also comes to mind. Gram neg. oxilinic acid helps with that. Again.. feed it as will destroy a biological filtration.
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Old 08-11-2012, 05:16 AM   #5 
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Basement Bettas- I've actually been really concerned it might be that, which is part of the reason he has his own stuff in a bag so nothing can be transfered to him or anyone else. His tank is on the other side of the room from the other fish as well. I'm doing everything I can to limit possible infection to others. But I'm also thinking it may not be...
He doesn't act sick, just gets the lesions which clearly up fairly quickly with AQ salt & he had a curved spine when I first got him, but that's almost completely corrected itself within the first 3 days. 3 of his current lesions have disappeared when I checked on him tonight & the 4th is almost gone. He's still active, has a big appetite, swims & poops normally, great color & no clamped fins. He's also a HMDT which I know are prone to deformities. What was the progression with your friend's fish? Did TB come on quickly or did it slowly progress?
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Old 08-13-2012, 03:17 AM   #6 
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it takes a bit. But the fish presented many different symptoms. Spawns had form issues, the ragged fins.. lesions. So they treated for fin rot, colimnaris, internals, externals and destroyed spawns. The shocker was it was in all the fish sent. older ones with obvious lesions, yong month ond fry, the ones with fin rot and no lesions and young healthy looking stock.

If I remember the ones with lesions stayed pretty healthy for a while. they tried to treat for columnaris on those and it never went away. Eventually those, I think, were the ones that stopped eating, lost condition and bloated. If you cut one of them open you can see white granulomas [I think.. spots are what was described] throughout the internal organs. It gets everywhere.

Lyso is the only thing that kills it as it WILL stay on a surface for a long time. soak everything that contacts anything about this fish with lysol in water. Let it sit 30 min if you can then rinse real good. Then soak in a bleach solution over night to get rid of the lysol. I now do this with everyting. One fish to a net. Even my hands before I move on to a nother tank. After destroying 10 years of work they are not sure they will continue the hobby. And there is the concern of having had hands with cuts in the water and the posibility of having TB issues themselves. I've been freaky for years about touching door handles cause so many other have touched them. That's nothing compared to how freaky I am now in my fish room. I'd be po'd to lose my lines.

Be careful..

Last edited by Basement Bettas; 08-13-2012 at 03:23 AM.
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:59 PM   #7 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basement Bettas View Post
it takes a bit. But the fish presented many different symptoms. Spawns had form issues, the ragged fins.. lesions. So they treated for fin rot, colimnaris, internals, externals and destroyed spawns. The shocker was it was in all the fish sent. older ones with obvious lesions, yong month ond fry, the ones with fin rot and no lesions and young healthy looking stock.

If I remember the ones with lesions stayed pretty healthy for a while. they tried to treat for columnaris on those and it never went away. Eventually those, I think, were the ones that stopped eating, lost condition and bloated. If you cut one of them open you can see white granulomas [I think.. spots are what was described] throughout the internal organs. It gets everywhere.

Lyso is the only thing that kills it as it WILL stay on a surface for a long time. soak everything that contacts anything about this fish with lysol in water. Let it sit 30 min if you can then rinse real good. Then soak in a bleach solution over night to get rid of the lysol. I now do this with everyting. One fish to a net. Even my hands before I move on to a nother tank. After destroying 10 years of work they are not sure they will continue the hobby. And there is the concern of having had hands with cuts in the water and the posibility of having TB issues themselves. I've been freaky for years about touching door handles cause so many other have touched them. That's nothing compared to how freaky I am now in my fish room. I'd be po'd to lose my lines.

Be careful..
Yep yep yep!!! I lost my avatar to columnaris because I wasn't careful enough! I treat with lysol also first, then bleach, then rinse.

Yes, please be careful!!!
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