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Old 06-30-2012, 11:12 PM   #1 
mursey
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Aquabid - Thai breeder vs U.S. breeder questions

New to betta-keeping - I have a 2 part question:

1.) I want to know why the Thai bettas look leagues above all the USA ones. You'd think even if great bettas came from another country, someone in the US could order a few and breed them. Instead I rarely see US bettas on Aquabid that look better than the ones in Petco. Why? Is no one breeding Thai stock? Are there really great US breeders that do not sellon Aquabid, and maybe that's why I don't see them? I am really curious about it. I wanted to buy a US one for my birthday in several months. . but I don't see much that looks "order-worthy" from the US.

2.) Why do people breed fish they got at Petco? Isn't the point of breeding an animal to attempt to make something extraordinary, either visually or health-wise .. . or even temperament/personality-wise?

I am not a snob, I have Petco bettas but I would never think I should breed them, because it seems irresponsible when you could either get another one that needs a good home, or if you want one from a breeder, you'd get a more responsibly bred animal.

Am I missing something? I get that breeding something might be fun . .. but I still neutered every animal I owned and would never plan to breed a Petco or Petsmart or Walmart betta. Even my favorite one that has a great personailty .. I wouldn't breed him. I'd try to give some fishy that is already alive a good home.

Hope I don't offend those of you who are breeding box-store bettas, I am truly curious about this.

Oh- while we are at it- I am also curious as to why someone buys baby bettas at Petco. (Since you don't know what you are getting) Is it better to get a fish in its youth so you have a chance to raise it well? Or is it something we should boycott because they are so little? Thoughts?
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Old 06-30-2012, 11:50 PM   #2 
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It really depends on the breeder. I bought 6 HM dragons from a US breeder. In my opinion, they look better than a lot of what I've been seeing on Aquabid lately. They have good balance and don't have long anal fins.

I have seen Thai breeders I like and US breeders I like. I have also seen both that I don't. It all really depends on what you're looking for.
At the moment I have both US and Thai bred fish.

I agree that breeding should be done responsibly and with a goal in mind. I
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Old 07-01-2012, 12:16 AM   #3 
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[quote=Enkil;1136313]It really depends on the breeder. I bought 6 HM dragons from a US breeder. In my opinion, they look better than a lot of what I've been seeing on Aquabid lately. They have good balance and don't have long anal fins.

Ok, so what you're saying is that I might be all "impressed by beautiful color combos" but you might see more "balance" and a fin structure you like.

I don't know that much about betta breeding standards, I just see what I like and my job is heavily about color. That makes sense, I may not be into what everyone else is into. (that's oversimplifying I guess)
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Old 07-01-2012, 12:23 AM   #4 
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Essentially true though. I look for good form and then take into consideration the color.
I have one HM dragon boy who is silver bodied with red fins. Then his fins have a wide edging done in silver like his body. I fell in love with him when ordering from the breeder and just had to have him. He has wonderful form and is quite healthy.

If I like the balance and fins but not the color, I will consider the fish, but usually end up passing on them.
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Old 07-01-2012, 12:36 AM   #5 
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The volume of spawns a Thai breeder will do at a time does not compare to one a US breeder will do.
This allows them to have a huge variety of colors to sell that are usually more appealing to the public.
I've stuck to US breeders because I find their fish much hardier than the imports.
I too look for form and finnage before coloring. It's always a plus to get a fish with beautiful colors or at least what I like but I rather have one with outstanding finnage that will be passed on to any fry.
Color is much more difucult to work with than finnage when breeding. You can have 2 with the exact same coloring and end up with a range of colors in the fry.
I prefer surprises when breeding so I stick with finnage and let the genetics of the fish give me whatever they want.
My last spawn gave me melanos, multis, bfs and some very cool marbles.
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Old 07-01-2012, 01:16 AM   #6 
Curlyfatbottom
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It all depend on what your working with
Some color is really easy to work with
Like solid
Green
Blue
White
Another easy fish to play with is the Cambodian
If u want a wide range of color and pattern
Try any of these
marble, butterfly, pastel, grizzle and muti
From my view of easiest to hardest on fin, balance n care
Vt
Pk
Dt
Hmpk
Ct
Hm
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Old 07-01-2012, 02:26 AM   #7 
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Like vilmarisv said, the Thai have the ability to have outdoor setups with daily warm temperatures bettas need and the soft water with the right minerals that bettas originate from. It is also a common "career" over in Thailand to be a betta breeder. A single breeder can have over 100,000 fish in stock at one time, multiply that by the overwhelming number of breeders on Aquabid and it's absolutely no surprise that they have more variety and numbers than US breeders. They have also been in this practice for much longer than most US breeders- wild type bettas were captured and bred for the first time in the Thailand area (formerly Siam, hence the name Siamese fighting fish.)

That isn't to belittle the talents of the breeders in the US, however. Right now is kind of a rough time for American bettas, because a few of the top national breeders have stopped participating in the hobby and offering their stock for sale. There are still a few very talented breeders that regularly sell, including BasementBettas, BettaScapes, and our very own Martinismommy here on BF.com. I'm absolutely sure there are more popular breeders here, but it's late and the names escape me at the moment.
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Old 07-01-2012, 11:20 AM   #8 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mursey View Post
New to betta-keeping - I have a 2 part question:

1.) I want to know why the Thai bettas look leagues above all the USA ones. You'd think even if great bettas came from another country, someone in the US could order a few and breed them. Instead I rarely see US bettas on Aquabid that look better than the ones in Petco. Why? Is no one breeding Thai stock? Are there really great US breeders that do not sellon Aquabid, and maybe that's why I don't see them? I am really curious about it. I wanted to buy a US one for my birthday in several months. . but I don't see much that looks "order-worthy" from the US.

Mostly Volume, A Thai breeder will have a hundred thousand to choose from and only jar the nice ones, the rest go to Petco and your local pet store.

2.) Why do people breed fish they got at Petco? Isn't the point of breeding an animal to attempt to make something extraordinary, either visually or health-wise .. . or even temperament/personality-wise?

I am not a snob, I have Petco bettas but I would never think I should breed them, because it seems irresponsible when you could either get another one that needs a good home, or if you want one from a breeder, you'd get a more responsibly bred animal.

Am I missing something? I get that breeding something might be fun . .. but I still neutered every animal I owned and would never plan to breed a Petco or Petsmart or Walmart betta. Even my favorite one that has a great personailty .. I wouldn't breed him. I'd try to give some fishy that is already alive a good home.

Hope I don't offend those of you who are breeding box-store bettas, I am truly curious about this.

Lack of access to quality stock?

Oh- while we are at it- I am also curious as to why someone buys baby bettas at Petco. (Since you don't know what you are getting) Is it better to get a fish in its youth so you have a chance to raise it well? Or is it something we should boycott because they are so little? Thoughts?

I saw those baby Betta's. They sell them for two bucks.
Most of the Betta's I am breeding come from Thai stock. The cost is much more than local to ship so perhaps it is not for everybody. I think the majority of local breeders don't breed for sale, they breed for show, so... you don't get many for sale Betta's from local breeders.

I mean if a breeder just wants to show, why would he/she sell you a pair from his best stock and then watch you beat him out in the same show? Especially after all his/her hard work?

The Thailand breeders are selling to sell and not show.

Jeff.
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Old 07-01-2012, 12:20 PM   #9 
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Jeff, actually petsmart and petco and most US fish shops get their stock from Segrest Farms. They're a mass-breeder, mass seller of fish supplies and species.
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Old 07-03-2012, 02:12 AM   #10 
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That's actually a lot of pretty interesting information there. Ironically after I wrote this question I found another US breeder who I had never seen on Aquabid before, and I saw that he seems to have a lot more selection, plus a good website for his business. (I think that is key for a small business! It's nice for customers to be able to see photos of past and/present fish just to keep that business in mind.)

Also I was thinking that some of the US breeders I saw on Aquabid just may not be using a very good camera because upon looking again, I'm thinking it's possible the photos just don't make the fish look all that great- and the Thai breeders I see most have very clear photos.

If anyone has more names of breeders they like and would recommend, I'd love to hear them.

Oh on this note:

"I mean if a breeder just wants to show, why would he/she sell you a pair from his best stock and then watch you beat him out in the same show? Especially after all his/her hard work?"

I get your point it but I would be happy with a reject fish from such a breeder, especially if what they reject might be what I like- as in color combos I love but I am not paying as much critical detail to fin balance, etc. I just want a pet, and I could get more at Petco but I just thought for a special occasion I might "treat" myself to one of the types of fish I always drool over on Aquabid. I don't want to breed anything and I don't need someone's crown jewel! :)

Last edited by mursey; 07-03-2012 at 02:13 AM. Reason: spelling mistake/typo
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