Bubble nest/breeding problems!

[yoshispal80]

Hello All, I am hoping you can help me. First of all I had one successful spawn but started losing babies. Then I noticed that the few babies I had left (5 to be exact) were stunted...they were half the size they should be! I separated them into jars and started changing the water daily (apparently they secrete a growth stunting hormone?) and they seem to be better.

Second, attempted a second spawn with a different pair. The male and female separated did their thing, flaring etc. then she submitted to him. He of course took the two days to build a bubble nest. There in lies the problem. He built a really, REALLY small nest! The female was full of eggs and I released her. They didn't fight or anything at first, she just simply submitted to him. He would NOT embrace her, just kept her near the nest. I figured they weren't quite ready so I separated them again. The next morning, she had pushed out her eggs and the nest was completely gone. I am not sure if the water conditions are not right? I had problems with the last nest also. I am wondering if certain water types or conditions can make it more difficult to maintain a bubble nest? Also, was my second pair not compatible? I am not sure what happened! Thanks in advance for your help!

[Fabian]

First of all,yes fries can secrete stunting hormone.
Your problem to a male making a small nest is because of your conditioning period.
You need to feed them a lot of high quality pellets,bloodworms or adult brine shrimp for at least 2 weeks before introducing them.Your male may be stressed due to lack of stamina.
Your spawning tank should NOT be less than 5 gallons with a heater and a small sponge filter.Make sure not to use chlorinated water.
If your male still keeps making a small nest,try adding some Indian Almond Leaves into the water.

[Kelly0727]

I'm not exactly experienced myself but I have read a few spawning logs in the past where the male never made a bubble nest no matter how many times they've tried but still had a successful spawn.

I'm actually going through that myself. For two weeks I've conditioned my pair but this time the male decided not to make a bubble nest, but they still spawned! Crazy thing was.. I use a better variety of foods for conditioning this time around so I believe it is possible that some males if they don't feel like it.. just wont. But that doesn't mean they wont spawn.

In fact my pair started out the same ways yours seem to have. I say if they aren't attacking each other keep them together instead of separating them.. just keep a very close eye on them. Just my two cents.. like I said I'm not really an experienced breeder so I could be completely wrong.. but it is what I have seen/read.

[Oldfishlady]

I don't wait on a nest or worry about the nest...some males don't make them until they have eggs in their mouth....

I would get your breeder in separate containers-neither in the spawning tank and mass feed them good quality varied diet 4-5 small meals a day and add live food like mosquito larva-mass feed these if you have access.
If you already properly conditioned them for about 2 weeks before the first spawning attempt-you should be able to get them ready again in about 7 days.
During the conditioning-get the spawning tank ready-add some tannins-either IAL or dried Oak leaf. Water temp 80F and add lots of live plants if you have them or silk/soft plant to fill most of the tank except in the area that you want the nest. Place whatever you plan to use for the nest anchor-I use water lettuce or float a dried Oak leaf for him to use.

Can you post a pic of the spawning tank....