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Old 09-13-2012, 08:12 PM   #31 
Mako
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I've never thought about it this way. In that case, I have only made sympathy purchases.
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:17 PM   #32 
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Originally Posted by MoonShadow View Post
- Business Cards - Make business cards with a couple quick, but important betta care facts, and add a link to your favorite betta specific website or forum. And do the same as listed above for the fliers.
Provided, of course, that it is okay with the website. This website, for example, does not allow members to do this for legal reasons. ;)
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:25 PM   #33 
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Just adding another opinion into the mix, something I have been thinking about while stalking this thread. xD

Whenever we purchase a betta from a store that keeps them in cold, small cups or bowls with water changes far less then necessary, since we as betta lovers and experienced keepers are taking the fish out of much less then ideal conditions(and possibly just as bad/worse conditions if someone inexperienced who didn't know any better were to pick the fish up and bring them home to keep them in their own tiny little cold container), regardless if the fish is sick or healthy, aren't re technically making a sympathy purchase rescue? Does the fish(or any animal, for that matter)really have to be already sick to be sympathy purchased or rescued if they're less then ideal conditions?

And just to make it clear, in case anyone takes this the wrong way.....I'm not saying buying a betta(healthy or otherwise)from a store is bad at all. I'm just stating a thought that had been swimming around in my head for a while. xD
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:35 PM   #34 
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What I mean is they are the same thing. Pay for the fish to rescue it, or get it for free and rescue it. You really aren't hurting the store by getting the fish for free. You hurt the store by never buying ANYTHING from it.
I do not agree that they are the same thing. Look at it this way:

1. Are you improving the living conditions of the animal in both scenarios?
Yes.

2. Can it be considered a rescue to take an animal out of bad living conditions that threaten its life and placing it into good living conditions?
Yes.

So what is the difference? In one instance you are saving a fish without financially contributing to a cycle of abuse and/or neglect and in another instance you paying money toward continuing that cycle. You may save one fish life but your money encourages the continuing existence of conditions that will harm other fish lives, not because you want it to but because companies do not care why you purchase an animal just simply that you purchase it.

Let's keep the scenario the same but change what we call the animal. Let's switch "fish" with "puppy."

Puppies from stores do not come from good conditions. Most of the time, they come from puppy mills, which are places that keep dogs in cramped, tiny, living areas where they tend to sit in their own feces and female dogs are constantly impregnated for their whole lives without leaving their cage. These conditions are terrible, correct? Purchasing a puppy that comes from such a terrible place supports the puppy mill financially. Now, you can say that you are "rescuing" the puppy because if nobody purchases it then it could end up in a shelter and put to sleep or that you are "rescuing" it from prior living conditions by providing it with a proper lifestyle.

Now, the puppy mill does not care why you purchase the puppy. It simply sees a product and quickly replaces it. It has profited. It will continue to profit because people will continue to pay, even if they pay with good intentions. Meanwhile, this profit endorses a bad behavior and contributes this behavior to be inflicted on further generations of living creature.



This is why there is a difference. By purchasing betta fish in what we would call a "sympathy purchase" your money contributes to the improper care of betta fish. By getting the fish for free after complaints to management, the store cannot profit and will see this as a lost opportunity. Even a discounted fish due to its conditions is more of a rescue than a full blown purchase--it is a way of reprimanding the store.

However, it should be noted that nothing works unless you follow up and send headquarters a letter. HQ should know WHY and WHEN you rescue a fish, even if your rescue is what we call a sympathy purchase, because then change has a hope of starting. Should you not complain to management and see through for a change, perhaps even refusing to buy products until they do change, then it is a small loss that means little.
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:39 PM   #35 
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Originally Posted by DragonFish View Post
Just adding another opinion into the mix, something I have been thinking about while stalking this thread. xD

Whenever we purchase a betta from a store that keeps them in cold, small cups or bowls with water changes far less then necessary, since we as betta lovers and experienced keepers are taking the fish out of much less then ideal conditions(and possibly just as bad/worse conditions if someone inexperienced who didn't know any better were to pick the fish up and bring them home to keep them in their own tiny little cold container), regardless if the fish is sick or healthy, aren't re technically making a sympathy purchase rescue? Does the fish(or any animal, for that matter)really have to be already sick to be sympathy purchased or rescued if they're less then ideal conditions?

And just to make it clear, in case anyone takes this the wrong way.....I'm not saying buying a betta(healthy or otherwise)from a store is bad at all. I'm just stating a thought that had been swimming around in my head for a while. xD
That is like saying that purchasing a rabbit from PetSmart is equivalent to rescuing it because it cannot live long term in those conditions. Rescue is often regarded as a noble word, meaning "to free or deliver from confinement, violence, danger, or evil." And unless you are PeTA crazy, I doubt you would consider a pet held in "confinement" or practice of having one "evil" and thus the idea is as long as the animal is held in a temporary living conditions (i.e. betta cups) it is not being rescue from anything but rather transitioned into its permanent home.

That is my take on it, anyway.
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:55 PM   #36 
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Puppies ain't fish.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for that

I just don't want folks to feel bad for rescuing a fish and the way it has been put here does make is look like sympathy purchase=bad, no pay rescue=good. I know you don't mean it to come across that way, but it seems so. Sorry.

A question for the strict no pay rescuers: where do you buy your fish supplies? Only at stores where you approve of their fish care? Online stores only? Do you boycott WalMart period?
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:06 PM   #37 
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Are you suggesting that fish are less of a creature than a puppy because puppies are larger, more expensive, and more capable of returning human affection? I am sorry but a living creature is a living creature and it deserves to be treated with proper care and a quality of life. That it what a pet is all about--caring for a living creature to your utmost ability regardless of its cost or ability to return or display affection.

As for me, I do not purchase any fish equipment or any pet supplies from Walmart. I do not agree with their AquaCulture brand, which creates deadly environments for fish to live in including betta vases. I will not support them to continue creating these things. In addition, their treatment of living creatures is deplorable and they have no business selling them whatsoever.

I DO only purchase any supplies from stores that treat their animals properly. I have 3 pet stores in my area. Only one is a major retailer, PetSmart. The others are local and provide disgusting conditions for their aquatic life. I went into the newer store only to ind that their fish were all suffering from acute fin melt, some had open wounds from being ripped apart from aggressive fish they lived with, goldfish were being kept with betta fish, and they were all suffering from ammonia and nitrite poisoning. The owner does not care about them and does not even condition the water or treat sick animals. This store is beyond hope and the owner publicly attacks and sues anyone who dares to challenge the way she runs her store, going as far as to name a certain person who filed a complaint on Facebook and calling her a b***h and encouraging her "supporters" (friends) to harass the complainer online. There is no helping the animals there because the owner is far gone from decency. It is better to avoid that store and let the business die.

If my PetSmart begins to treat their animals improperly I will talk with management. If their quality stays low I will buy online. There are always options.
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:25 PM   #38 
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Oh, see, I was leaning more towards the 'sympathy purchase' side moreso then the actual legit 'rescue' side....maybe I should have made that a little more clear. xD;

Of course these are just temporary containers....but really even as a temporary home, they dirty little cold cups most places keep bettas in is so much further from ideal for the fish then in comparison to what temporary conditions-ideal conditions are for most(not ALL, of course)other animals sold in those places, from what I've seen/understand.
And on top of that all the myths and misconceptions surrounding bettas often lead them into permanent homes with conditions that really aren't too much better then the temporary ones they are kept in at the store. So more of what I was getting at is, that in a way, regardless of the health of the fish, we kind of sympathy purchase when it comes to bettas anyway....
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:29 PM   #39 
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But what if you're poor...and you have bettas. and only walmart is available to you... :(
But I mean... people can fight for the greater cause by not buying fish at all.. But maybe if 100 people just complained, walmart will take it off their shelves.

As for fish, I can't leave one there , knowing full well that he will die tomorrow...paid for or not...
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:33 PM   #40 
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If you buy anything from Walmart or any big box store you are supporting them, even if it's an apple or dog treat. Petco and Petsmart will never be totally innocent of abuse even if the one you shop at has clean betta cups.

I'm just saying things never change, we still have puppymills, we still see tiny animals encased in plastic on keychains and hamsters are being microwaved by sick teenagers all across the country. So if anyone wants to make difference in one fish's life by buying it and nursing it, don't make them feel guilty by saying they are part of the problem. We are all part of the problem whether or not we want to be. This is just the opinion of cynical old lady who has been in a bad mood all day
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