Opinions on breeding fish vs. dogs?

[registereduser]

Originally Posted by indjo

as long as the breeder is responsible for what he creates.

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[LadyVictorian]

Originally Posted by indjo

I know nothing about dog breeding and can't compare the two species. But I know that Dobermans were created by mix breeding several types of dogs...... is that justified? Again, IMO as long as the breeder is responsible for what he creates.

It really doesn't work like that. In order to create a new breed EVERY dog born has to look the same, same body structure and same pattern of coloration that will define the new breed. Yes all dogs come from mixing a bunch of dog breeds together but you never see any Poodle that looks like a lab unless it's a mutt or poorly bred animal.

I still feel having been in a house where we bred show quality dogs and healthy ones at that if you are not going to breed a healthy dog and add to the dogs dying young of horrid and painful birth defects then you have no right to breed. Even if you do find them homes. There is something called a puppy mill and they find their dogs places to go but they are not breeders, in fact what they do is very much illegal and they even breed purebreds along with it. A breeder is ethical and weeds out the hip displasia, cancer, fur lose in blue dobermans (yes improperly bred blue dobermans lose all their fur sadly). MANGE which is also genetic and killed one of our pet dogs because the genetic mange can't be cured. Wobblers, and many more. As an owner would you want to put down your six year old dog because of an irresponsible breeder who made sure your animal would suffer? No. I have seen people forced to put down a three year old Great Dane because of wobblers...is that responsible breeding? Is that an ethical breeder? Is that right? He found the dog a home but he still doomed the poor beast to a horrid death.

[registereduser]

Being responsible for what you bring into the world means more than getting it a home. It means making sure it is healthy and in the case of mammals making sure they will not procreate UNLESS you have oversight in the matter. Show breeders, for example, will co-own a dog that they think is worthy of continuing their line.

Anyone who brings puppies or kittens into this world needs to make sure each and every last one gets altered before going to a new home or very soon after. How many actually do? Maybe 1%

[LittleBettaFish]

While a good idea in theory, it is actually not advised to spay or neuter at a very early age in a lot of bigger breeds of dogs because of problems with growth.

For example, we kept our shepherd male intact until 12 months old and then got him desexed. Glad we did as we have two girls (we show) in the house and it's bad enough now when they come into heat!

Anyways, I always feel as long as you have an actual long-term goal with your breeding program and are willing to cull or re-home those fish that don't meet this goal, I don't have a problem with breeding from lower-end stock.

What annoys me though is when a person gets two generic pet quality VTs from their pet store and just wants to chuck them into the spawning tank with no forethought as to the compatibility of the pair or any real idea as to what they want to achieve from the crossing.

Quality is always going to sell, and I would hate to have spent months raising fish only to have to give them away in an already saturated market to less than desirable homes. I mean, how many of you would really prefer a blue with red wash VT male over a flashy coloured and decently formed HM or HMPK?

There are only so many homes out there that I feel take an appropriate level of care of their bettas. To me, the most important thing is that any fish I produce go to good homes. Why bother breeding, if your target demographic is going to be those who keep their bettas in cold, dirty bowls?

[Olympia]

That's why I'll never breed fish, LBF. I'd be too worried about their future homes.
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[LittleBettaFish]

Yeah that's one of the reasons I don't breed, or if I do I usually keep a large portion of the fish I've bred.

We all condemn ignorant owners and stores that promote poor care on this forum, yet with so many bettas produced each year, many are either going to fall into one of these two categories, or if they are unlucky enough, both.

IMO quality, well-bred fish are usually going to find better homes because people don't usually buy expensive things just to treat them poorly. However, a $1-$2 fish is generally a lot less regarded and if it dies because of bad care, well then it's no big deal as it was only worth a couple of dollars.

This is why when breeding you have to actually have a customer base in mind. Questions I think all new breeders should ask include whether you are going to be selling your fish as pet, breeding or show stock? Whether you are going to only be selling to private customers or supplying local stores with your fish? Whether you are selecting for popular colours and tail types or just breeding the cheapest fish you can find?

Customer demand should be be a main driver in your breeding choices. It is no good successfully raising spawn after spawn if no one is buying them from you. Just because it's what you as a breeder like, doesn't mean that it's going to sell well.

Every store I go into has red and blue VTs that sit languishing in their cups for months and months. Therefore, it would not be a sound business plan for me to go out and breed red or blue VTs as this is an already oversaturated market and I would never be able to financially compete with overseas commercial breeders.

Therefore, it's not only the quality of your stock that dictates whether or not they should be bred, but also whether or not there is a market for the kind of fish you would be producing.

[indjo]

Originally Posted by registereduser

Being responsible for what you bring into the world means more than getting it a home. It means making sure it is healthy and in the case of mammals making sure they will not procreate UNLESS you have oversight in the matter. Show breeders, for example, will co-own a dog that they think is worthy of continuing their line.

Anyone who brings puppies or kittens into this world needs to make sure each and every last one gets altered before going to a new home or very soon after. How many actually do? Maybe 1%

Exactly.
IMO new types (HM, Rose T, HMPK, CT, Big ear, etc) are not better (species wise) - they are weaker and carry many genetic issues. They only look better (form and color) and thus are only "better" to us humans.