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Old 10-14-2012, 10:06 PM   #11 
crowntaillove
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Originally Posted by indjo View Post
Yes. That's why it's important to know their genetic back ground (also for health reasons) if you want a more definite result.

Keep in mind that most of today's bettas have mixed genes so you may need to breed a few generation to get pure colors genes. Don't be surprised if you bred two same colors but get a rainbow of colors. Some "strong" genes may be carried for 3 generations - though they don't show in previous generations, but they might suddenly show in the next one. Confusing? ... yes it is indeed! This is why some replies say you can't really know the outcome, specially if you don't know their background.
I always got so frustrated when people said that, but I understand why now! Thank you SO much. :]
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:40 AM   #12 
moonsand0wls
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What would happen then, say, someone crossed a wildtype female betta with a red body and black fins, with a veilteil male with a black head, main blue body and the fins are really multicolored? (pink, purple, turquoise, red, white) ?
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Old 10-16-2012, 07:56 PM   #13 
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I found a website that said that Turquoise and steel are not dominant over each other and that they blend into a new color, royal blue. This slightly confuses me. Is it because two dominant colors can't be dominant over each other, so they blend? If that's true then all dominant colors (assuming they carry a pure dominant genotype) should blend when crossed, correct? If the dominant traits are red, opaque, turquoise, steel, royal, butterfly, marble, Veil tail, and crowntail then you should be able to mix any of the above to create a new color. (Blue and Red!!!!)

Wait...unless this all goes back to the layers you talked about. That would explain why red and blue doesn't make purple...Then wouldn't that make a red betta with a blue wash since blue is the top most layer?

I can understand the crowntail/veiltail cross. Although the tail may look messy, you can see an immediate effect of blending in the spawn rather than 25% this and 25% that that you would get when crossing dominant and recessive genes.

I haven't really read into crossing butterflys and marbles, is that what you would get, a butterfly marble?

What's up with these clear finned bettas I'm seeing on aquabid? Is it an all new mutation, or is it a result of very strict breeding of whichever gene does that? (I'd like to know which gene is involved if you know)

I'm trying, I really am! I'm having to go back and forth between several pages because I can't find all the information I want on the same page!!!
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:24 PM   #14 
indjo
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All I can say about turquoise x steel blue = royal is that Royal blue carries half of both. So in the Irid layer royal blue is most recessive compared to the other two. I'm not sure whether this is due to a new mutation sometime ago. But that is the genetic make up/code of royal blue.

Take copper for example. The genetic make up of copper = steel blue + metallic genes (according to science). To give them that "copper" appearance they need a certain percentage of red. Otherwise they will come out as steel (light shade of "copper"). Logically copper should have red in their genetic make up. But science doesn't say that. Further if they are genetically similar to steel blue; Logically if bred to steel blue it would only produce steel blue and few copper. If bred to turquoise it should produce turquoise, steel blue, royal blue (because RB = half of turquoise and steel blue), and few copper. But it doesn't.

Copper x steel blue = turquoise, steel blue and copper (this implies that copper is turquoise + metallic genes)
Copper x turquoise = mainly turquoise and some copper.
The only logical cross result is with royal blue. It produces all irid colors as it should.

I don't really understand why and just accept the facts/results I always get.

I think this will confuse you ..... 'cause it is confusing me typing it. LOL
...............................

Red x Blue does not produce purple or other new colors has something to do with the layers. Eliminating one to enhance the other is common. But to create a new blend, they need to physically appear in a certain way/combination each to a certain percentage - like the copper. But for some reason regular base colors work differently to metallic and I think (still trying to figure out dragons) dragons work even more differently.

Sorry, I'll have to continue later
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:59 PM   #15 
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-joins in to learn- LOL.

Add: a veil tail and crown tail cross you get a "shag" veil tail, which then it can take 2 or more generations to get a decent combtail. I have a baby betta who is a "shag" as I call it - she has her mama's fins with her pop's crowntail coming through making it "shaggy". Males would be more visible to that shag affect, then females.

I do find it funny seeing people breed a specific color and come out with a "where did YOU come from?!" Fry

A question I will add in.... Is the dragon gene recessive? Like... Breeding a cellophone to a dragon produces...?
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:36 AM   #16 
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Originally Posted by indjo View Post
All I can say about turquoise x steel blue = royal is that Royal blue carries half of both. So in the Irid layer royal blue is most recessive compared to the other two. I'm not sure whether this is due to a new mutation sometime ago. But that is the genetic make up/code of royal blue.

Take copper for example. The genetic make up of copper = steel blue + metallic genes (according to science). To give them that "copper" appearance they need a certain percentage of red. Otherwise they will come out as steel (light shade of "copper"). Logically copper should have red in their genetic make up. But science doesn't say that. Further if they are genetically similar to steel blue; Logically if bred to steel blue it would only produce steel blue and few copper. If bred to turquoise it should produce turquoise, steel blue, royal blue (because RB = half of turquoise and steel blue), and few copper. But it doesn't.

Copper x steel blue = turquoise, steel blue and copper (this implies that copper is turquoise + metallic genes)
Copper x turquoise = mainly turquoise and some copper.
The only logical cross result is with royal blue. It produces all irid colors as it should.

I don't really understand why and just accept the facts/results I always get.

I think this will confuse you ..... 'cause it is confusing me typing it. LOL
...............................

Red x Blue does not produce purple or other new colors has something to do with the layers. Eliminating one to enhance the other is common. But to create a new blend, they need to physically appear in a certain way/combination each to a certain percentage - like the copper. But for some reason regular base colors work differently to metallic and I think (still trying to figure out dragons) dragons work even more differently.

Sorry, I'll have to continue later
Let me see if I'm understanding that somewhat correctly. It's as if royal blue is similar to having 4 genes instead of 2? (I'm not saying that literally, just for the sake of understanding.)

Either way, I'm going to promise myself to not work with royal blues or copper for a long, long time.

I think I've finally settled on a fasination with fancy bettas. I can't seem to find much information on them anywhere. There just marbles with more colors, right? I feel like I'll understand genetics better if I have a "hands on" experience with them, so I'm going to start breeding soon.

I want to create my own line, but I don't want all the work done for me, but at the same time I certainly don't want to create a new mutation. I'm thinking one parent with the fancy genes, and one without. Would that be an okay place to start?
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:38 AM   #17 
crowntaillove
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Originally Posted by Sena Hansler View Post
-joins in to learn- LOL.

Add: a veil tail and crown tail cross you get a "shag" veil tail, which then it can take 2 or more generations to get a decent combtail. I have a baby betta who is a "shag" as I call it - she has her mama's fins with her pop's crowntail coming through making it "shaggy". Males would be more visible to that shag affect, then females.

I do find it funny seeing people breed a specific color and come out with a "where did YOU come from?!" Fry

A question I will add in.... Is the dragon gene recessive? Like... Breeding a cellophone to a dragon produces...?

By all means, the more the merrier! Hopefully we'll both learn a lot!
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:59 AM   #18 
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So... can someone explain to me why my Male betta has turquoise on one side of his tail, and blue on the other? It's clearly visible too, along with other colours going out towards the tips, like pink purple and white.

o.o This stuff so confused me :P
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:58 AM   #19 
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Well, take a look at my El Dorado (RIP)... That color right there I have yet to see again in such a vibrant yellow. That of course, as yellow is, a mutation of red. I would love to breed yellows however most are pale, or would cause more reds or oranges (the picture has not been enhanced for color btw)

Your betta could just very well have a unique color pattern...err...maybe not pattern.... but I have had a "crayola" betta who had multi colors and unlike a butterfly who has the identical markings on both sides, this fish had different ones!
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:36 AM   #20 
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oh cool :D thanks!!
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