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Old 10-25-2012, 09:47 PM   #21 
Sivan's Avatar
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Originally Posted by twolovers101 View Post

Lol not sure how much help I actually am Dx
I find all of those things fascinating. I feel like brain-related articles can at least give me a basis of how other fish brains work. A comparison is always beneficial in order to understand how having and not having certain functions effects the species. I wish there were more betta-specific articles, though. Or at least easier to find ones.

Thank you for your help!
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:13 PM   #22 
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Awesome, I'll keep them bookmarked for you :)
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:27 PM   #23 
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Thank you! I am calling it a night for now but I WILL be back to check on things in the morning and I will spend some time, probably during the afternoon, researching and posting relevant information here. Hopefully we inspire each other to look into different areas and find scientific research that is helpful!
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:20 AM   #24 
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I am by no means an expert but I do have an interest in biology. This is not about bettas but I had never heard about the mormyridae, so i decided to look it up and this is what I found. I thought it was an interesting albeit short read. It appears to be a respectable site and I feel it also pertains to earlier posts.
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:26 PM   #25 
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I'm going to subscribe to this.

One of the fields I was actually thinking about for my major was going to be biology, but I wanted to focus on marinelife. I have a feeling that withe everyone working together on this we will be able to find out some very interesting stuff about ebtats on here :)
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:20 PM   #26 
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I agree, Choclate. They know how to give you that look that says feed me more bloodworms. Lol
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:24 PM   #27 
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Yeah or they refuse all food except there favorite Carter trained me to buy him anything he wants.
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:25 PM   #28 
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Originally Posted by Sivan View Post
Well that escalated quickly.

Originally Posted by Sivan View Post
This is the sort of info I want. I have very minor experience studying functions of a brain and unfortunately have only been able to study the functions of the human brain. My very brief, limited, understanding on how the human brain works stems from a university course I once took on the pharmacology of illicit drugs and how/why the human brain reacts the way it does. I have never been able to study animal, specifically fish, brains or how they differ. My limited knowledge is hindered by my non-scientific background and I would wish to expand more into this.

Thank you for giving me words to more specifically search for. Do you have any articles you would recommend on this blurb you described or diagrams from scientific sources? I would love to examine this further but would like a simpler source, so to speak, that I can understand with my limited background.
The main differences between animal and human brains is mainly the SIZE of various structures, or the absence of structures. Other than that they are the same in terms of function.

For example (I apologize for small image size):

In this image above, the functional structures are colour coded.

The larger pituitary gland (displayed in green) in ANIMALS in relation to humans gives rise to their end-result desire to breed and pass on their genes.

The larger olfactory bulb (displayed in yellow) in ANIMALS in relation to humans is also much larger due to their reliance on their sense of smell. Humans and carnivores are more likely to use a combination of VISION and smell, but due to our eventual sentience and technology, our olfactory senses have been diminished. In aquatic species, olfactory senses tend to be more chemical because you can't exactly "smell" water the way we smell a freshly baked pie (also chemical but different).

The cerebrum and cerebellum (beige and red) are mainly for voluntary movements like swimming, flying, hopping around, walking, eating, etc. Generally the same sizes in most animals. The human cerebellum is larger compared to most animals because it facilitates DELICATE movements such as our fingers and lips to communicate.

Unfortunately I don't really have any scholarly articles that are written in layman's terms (frankly I find some of them confusing as well) but since the brain is a largely studied organ, a few google searches will help you find all sorts of physical, chemical, and morphological articles concerning its functions.

Originally Posted by Sivan View Post
How do scientists rank fish intelligence? Why is the mormyriade more intelligent than, let's say, a tuna? I am not familiar with this species and I think using it to compare to betta splendens would be interesting.
Generally scientists rank overall "intelligence" using comparative brain-body size. So let's say that our brain is around 10% of our body mass. Anything similar in intelligence (so dolphins, elephants, chimpanzees) will have a relative brain-body mass around 10%.

As somebody pointed out, the Mormyriade uses this extra brain size to understand complicated electrical signals as a primitive form of communication

Originally Posted by Sivan View Post
In general: Does anyone have a scientific database that has good articles/research in ichthyology? I need a starting point and I need to become familiar with the basics so I can relate them and apply them to betta fish. I would not even mind comparisons within the betta species (i.e. betta splendens VS betta imbellis). I find this sort of thing fascinating.
Not betta-specific but it's a good start:
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:27 PM   #29 
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Love this topic and am subscribing to it. On the topic of betta behaviour, would you mind if I brought up a topic about flaring, Sivan? I'll post the query below and am sorry if it seems I am hijacking your post, I'm just intrigued.

I was talking about the 'domesticated' betta spledens with an employee of my favourite aquatics store a couple of weeks ago and he mentioned something interesting about research into why bettas flare during battles. Now from what I currently understand a betta will flare to either warn off a foe or attract a mate but this employee said it is also believed that when a betta flares and expands his fins fully he has difficulty breathing, so while the battle may incur a few nips and body slams it is ultimately the length of time an individual betta can go without needing to breathe that determines the 'winner' of the battle (so when one of the bettas simply can't hold on anymore they will swim away to get air).

The store for which this employee works is very reputable and hasn't failed me thus far so I'd be very interested to see what others think of this tid bit or if they have heard or read of anything that correlates to this employees story.

I know that prolonged flaring can be stressful to a betta but why? Is it because of the stress of a rival being in their close vicinity or is it because they struggle to breathe while flaring? I wish I had the source of this information so I could do some research myself but I'm interested to see what others think.
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:30 PM   #30 
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Domestic betta is dominat that is interesting.
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