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Old 12-23-2012, 04:25 AM   #1 
MidTnBetta
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Need help ASAP please.

Okay. So Newbie and the two juv females have had Ich for about 3 days. I've not had time to go to the store to get meds (I know I'm horrible, you don't have to tell me) but am going tomorrow. I've treated with AQ salt and kept tank warm. Sitting at about 78. No tank heater (10g). I've only had these two females about 2 1/2 wks now. Got them from a LPS. Another place I will not buy anything aquatic from. Supplies only. He got ich from either the plecos or the females. And quite possibly it could have been carried on the java moss as it came out of a fry tank. He has maybe 10 tiny spots of ich, the girls have maybe 2 or 3 small spots. I've not seen any on my plecos but doesn't mean it isn't there. Now on to my problem.

Newbie (wild type round tail) has bright red (talking blood, bright red) spots on the edges of his dorsal, caudal, and anal fins. The only fins that don't have it are his pectoral fins and his ventrals. It doesn't look fuzzy and I just noticed it today. His dorsal fin had one tiny dot of red this morning but I barely noticed it as it blends in with his coloring. I noticed now that it has spread to the above mentioned fins. He's not biting it, not been caught in anything. Has only been in AQ salt 2 days total. Has been in it prior for tearing his tail and this didn't happen. WTH is this? I've never seen this and I've had quite a few bettas. He's probably the 3rd one I've ever had that's even gotten ich. I'm worried as hell but need to know what I'm dealing with so I know what medicine to get to treat this. I did a 75% water change about a week ago and he was fine. The girls dont have this. He's not being bullied by anything as he's head man in the tank. I am absolutely stumped but 100% worried about what I need to do/get. It's rather freaking me out. I can attempt to get cell photos, but they always come out blurry and my digital is broken.

Any ideas as to what this could be? And believe me, tomorrow I am raising 15 kinds of hell at this LPS.
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Old 12-23-2012, 04:31 AM   #2 
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Pics of Newbie from when I've got him. Got him as a Juv from Walmart. Had him about a month and a half now.





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Old 12-23-2012, 04:49 AM   #3 
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Best picture I could get of his fins.
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Old 12-23-2012, 05:27 AM   #4 
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Ok...if it isn't just his coloring, which is possible...I would continue with Aq salt and you can buy Kordon's Rid Ich plus (have had excellent results with this product). Try to get heater as 78 is bare min (in my opinion and many others).
Big question? Are they all swimming, eating, pooping like normal? If so, don't stress too much.
Are the girls in same tank? If so, make sure it has lots of plants (even some floating) and other hiding spots so no one has to see the others all the time! The girls have stress stripes in last pic.
In addition, the extra red in your male could be coloring up because of the girls.
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Old 12-23-2012, 05:40 AM   #5 
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They're all in the same tank. He completely ignores them unless they get to bickering and the blue marble girl will come and "hide" behind him. He's been a real champ with these. He's not picked on them once. There's tons of java moss, artificial plants, etc for them to hide in. I'm actually constantly finding Newbie or one of the girls wedged under the moss (not attached to anything) taking a nap. The girls will also take turns napping on one of the plant stems. The two plecos have laid claim to the hide hole. They all have appetites and eat like pigs. He is still active, swimming, etc. Personable when he sees me, not noticed a change in any of that.

It's not his coloring as this has spread today and started out the tiny size of maybe a pin head. Now it's spread to 3 fins and lines all 3. I'm not sure what this is. I may stop the AQ, do a 100% water change, and start everything on Tetracycline to be safe. The water is treated with Prime.
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Old 12-23-2012, 06:17 AM   #6 
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The water change is a good iďea, if tank is cycled, I personally wouldn't do 100%, more like a 75-90% and tetracycline might be a good idea, but I don't see symptoms that would warrant it.
1 what you do know is your fish have ich, so treat for icy...the rid ich plus has either methylene blue or malachite green in it which will help your fish by oxygenating water better. If you had a heater, I'd say crank up the heat slowly over next couple of days to 82%...this will make the parasite cycle faster, so the ones you don't kill will be sucked out with DAILY gravel vacuuming and water changes of 25-less than 50%....you will have to treat for 7days (or what is says on bottle) ...the total complete treatment because w/o heater and inability to speed parasite cycle up, do the whole treatment that the bottle suggests.

On to tetracycline....if I remember meds, this antibiotic is sulfa based and works well with a number infections ....as long as your water pH is less than 7:6....so test the pH of water prior to use...and save it for symptoms that it might actually help.

I get the fear...your new fish look different and you have worries. I am a bit cautious in continuing this line but your fish might have marble genes, possibly how he became such a gorgeous black and red bicolor to begin with....he has red, blue, black with no specific pattern....so as a marble he could change the course of his coloring and become a red butterfly in a matter of months....my only leeriness is due to a lot happening so quickly, days and not months....but is has happened so we can'trule it out!
And your descriptions of your tanks recent life leads me to tell you that if you want this to succeed....you have know what is you want...natural tank with male and his mate, possibly 2 and everything to be ok with no stress....this takes a lot of planning....are we hoping the other female eats eggs, or maybe that first chosen lady won't beat the crap out 2# to ensure she won't eat the eggs...right now, the male is ignoring the 2 girls because they aren't ready.
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Old 12-23-2012, 07:08 AM   #7 
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Not sure if this is sulfer based or not but here is what another forum says about it

Tetracycline
Ingredients: 250 mg capsule of Tetracycline Hydrochloride activity
Diseases: antibiotic, treats ulcers and open soars, frayed fins, mouth and body sores, abdominal bloat, red patches, bacterial infections, livebearer disease, fungal infections, dropsy, furunculosis
Contraindications:
Cannot be combined with any meds except for medicated foods. Very effective at low pH or acidic water condition with pH no more than 7.4-7.5 otherwise ineffective when used with salt and high hardness levels. NEVER mix it with - Ampicillin, Chloramphenicol, Erythromycin (exercise caution), Furan, Penicillin, Sulfas, Baking Soda


Rid-Ich
Active Ingredients: Malachite green and Formalin
Diseases: Ich
Contraindications:
Both active ingredients are carcinogenic agents. See further information of both ingredients under Formalin/Formaldehyde and Malachite Green.

Dosage is one teaspoon per 10 gallons and must be done daily for at least a week and another three days after ich had seemingly disappeared. Do partial water changes before administering full dosage as required.

Be sure your water has plenty of oxygen as Rid-Ich can deplete oxygen levels.

QUICK CURE will also work and is the same ingredients as rid ich. I think there is a warning for both about using it with inverts and maybe plecos too?

In general males/females should not be housed together. As the male gets older, he normally gets more aggressive. There are, of course, exceptions to the rule. You can keep females together BUT you should have at least 5 on a 10 gallon with LOTS and LOTS of decor. It is possible to have a male with them but I would suggest more girls and a bigger tank. However there is no guarantee it will work

Last edited by Tikibirds; 12-23-2012 at 07:17 AM.
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Old 12-23-2012, 07:34 AM   #8 
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Tikibirds: excellent job summing up as always...especially living conditions...thank you.
I still don't see need for tetracycline as its antibiotic mostly and, according to OP, all we have is ich and red on fins, which could be coloring up, stress, or injuring w/all plastic plants that I see in pics. I suggested RidIch Plus because it has worked wonders for me in the past...and as far as I am concerned carconoginec might as well be put on everything because for the most part, we don't have truth about what makes cells turn into cancer....and as a nurse, I can tell you: all meds are poison if given at wrong dose or for wrong illness, and most meds are poison period!
I know methylene blue adds oxygen to your water enabling fish to breathe easier, probably thinking malachite green did....which I think I read somewhere it does....guess its back to the books for that one as I don't usually get my med info from other chat sites...but apologies if I was untrue about malachite green and o2...
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Old 12-23-2012, 07:52 AM   #9 
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I'm probably gonna get yelled at for linking to another fish forum (its aganist the rules) but Aqueria Central has a nice list of fish meds and their uses. That's my cheat sheet. Chemistry is so not my thing
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums...traindications

All I know about malachite green is its some kind of dye and aparenlty causes cancer in the sate of california (only CA?? LOL). There is also some other weird warning on the Quick Cure bottle - something like Do not use on baby whales. Ummm...yeah.

I also say treat the ick first. I think the red may be coloring. They can sometimes have odd and fast color changes.
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Old 12-23-2012, 12:06 PM   #10 
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Is your guy in a tank with several other females? You cannot keep a male betta and females together and sororities should be more than 2 and ideally at least 20 gallons.. These bettas need to be separated. You're lucking out for now but one day your luck will run out and you could end up with a bunch of dead betta fish on your hands. It's just wreckless and bad fish keeping. Sorry.

Can you please fill this out so we know we're not missing anything: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=49233

Tetracyline has become a pretty much worthless med because it's so overused. Fish also really hate it. If you're going for an antibiotic use Kanaplex if you can find it and if not Maracyn Plus or Furan 2. Or just 1 tsp per gallon aquarium salt for up to 10 days, along with daily 100% water changes and stress coat at 1 ml per gallon. I would quarantine and not treat the whole tank as it would cause your cycle to crash.

The stickies here talk about how to treat ich conservatively and more aggressively with a med. In either case, tank temp will need to be rasied into the mid 80s to speed up the life ccyle or just about anything will be futile... same treatment would also clear up fin rot as above. http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=73332

I'm just wondering how you know your tank is at 78 with no heater.. your room temp would have to be into the 80s for that to be so. Are you using an in tank thermometer?

Last edited by callistra; 12-23-2012 at 12:10 PM.
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