Why are Spade Tails so rare now?

[Bluewind]

I guess I'm an odd duck. I don't like half moons or the like. To me, they have too much fin to really swim! Crowntails just look messy and shredded. DT usually have genetic problems. or physical deformaties. I love Veiltails and Spades and the like. They are both beautiful and functional. Why would I want a pretty and misrable pet?
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[Basement Bettas]

Originally Posted by Bluewind

I guess I'm an odd duck. I don't like half moons or the like. To me, they have too much fin to really swim! Crowntails just look messy and shredded. DT usually have genetic problems. or physical deformaties. I love Veiltails and Spades and the like. They are both beautiful and functional. Why would I want a pretty and misrable pet?
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My fish swim just fine are not miserable.. and probably get better care than yours. Not all DT's have issues and even the good ones have fins they can manage. VT's have longer tail fins than the HM's do. Maybe we should can them too and just go back to the fighter wild type. And I Love HM's.

You don't like CT's or HM's.. that is fine. To each his own. I'd own a sight hound before I'd be caught dead with a toy dog breed. Nice thing is there is enough variety to keep everybody happy. Dogs and fish..

This is the show fish section.. for people that DO like these fish. Why would we want to own such a common pet as a VT? See. It works both ways..

[Bluewind]

I'm not sure how a VT is plane. Especially when compared to other fish breeds. But, to each his own.

I wasn't saying that your DT had a problem, but that many DT are born with deformaties or genetic issues. Enough that it is actually sited as a problem with the type. This means in the process of creating the subtype, they created the predisposition to these problems. Just as many people like Great Danes, but because their breding, they have heart problems which gives them a shortened lifespan of 6-8 years. To make something weaker genetically in the prosuite of astetics never made much sence to me. I am a woman of simple tastes who likes clean lines over clutter. Just like when I was looking at jewelry and others go crazy over something busy while I always go for something sleak, beautiful, and practical. As I said, Im an odd duck. I can see the beauty in VT & ST. And I want to know why no one else does anymore. When did simple flowing beauty go out of style?
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[Basement Bettas]

Originally Posted by Bluewind

I'm not sure how a VT is plane. Especially when compared to other fish breeds. But, to each his own.

To make something weaker genetically in the prosuite of astetics never made much sence to me. ... I can see the beauty in VT & ST. And I want to know why no one else does anymore. When did simple flowing beauty go out of style?
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We don't breed for genetic weakness.. it just happens. Discus and guppies are both beautiful.. just do nothing for me. I like HM bettas and try to breed the best I can. There are some difficulties.. but we try to improve them. You don't have to like or approve because it is what it is.

And there are plenty of people like you that like the VT's. This web site is swarming with them. This section was created to give those that breed the HM's or other show fish a place to enjoy each others company and interest. It was set up to discuss showing and breeding for shows. It is a place to answer questions of those that have no idea what breeding for shows and showing is about. It is NO place for putting VT's up and dogging the others. That is why we have this ONE section and the VT's have the rest of the forum. Can't stand these fish then stay out of this section and stop saying my fish have a sad life and their fins are cruel. And quit whining about no classes for VT's. Establish a standard and have some of your own shows. It is well and good to complain about no classes.. and it is another to have 20 breeders with 200 fish to enter in a show.

[Bluewind]

I didn't come in a particular area of the forum in order to upset you or anyone else. I am on tropicalfishkeeping.com in the middle of the night. I clicked on "New Posts" and saw this thread about Spade Tails. I was curious, so I clicked on it.

All over this forum, I see members telling others that their VT should not be bred because nobody wants them. Don't breed um. Can't show um. It makes me sad that VT and ST get tossed aside as unworthy of breeding and such because they are... what exactly? All anyone says is "out of style" but how can a living being be out of style? It makes no sense to me. And how can a subtype of Betta with more genetic abnormalities be more disarable? What if they were specifically bred for health and positive interactions to humans and community environments? What kind of fish would be created through that kind of breeding?
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[ChibreneyDragon]

Originally Posted by Bluewind

I didn't come in a particular area of the forum in order to upset you or anyone else. I am on tropicalfishkeeping.com in the middle of the night. I clicked on "New Posts" and saw this thread about Spade Tails. I was curious, so I clicked on it.

All over this forum, I see members telling others that their VT should not be bred because nobody wants them. Don't breed um. Can't show um. It makes me sad that VT and ST get tossed aside as unworthy of breeding and such because they are... what exactly? All anyone says is "out of style" but how can a living being be out of style? It makes no sense to me. And how can a subtype of Betta with more genetic abnormalities be more disarable? What if they were specifically bred for health and positive interactions to humans and community environments? What kind of fish would be created through that kind of breeding?
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In some countries, like the Netherlands and Australia, they ARE bringing back the VT into shows, they even have show standards for them. Betta Splendens is a beautiful fish no matter what tail type, and I am sorry you feel harassed.

VT was the first step from wild type to all of these other wonderful tail types, and achieving HM or DT or CT would not have come about without the VT gene.

There are plenty of sites that discuss the VT standard, if not actual SECTIONS in shows for the VT.

[Basement Bettas]

Originally Posted by Bluewind

I didn't come in a particular area of the forum in order to upset you or anyone else. I am on tropicalfishkeeping.com in the middle of the night. I clicked on "New Posts" and saw this thread about Spade Tails. I was curious, so I clicked on it.

All over this forum, I see members telling others that their VT should not be bred because nobody wants them. Don't breed um. Can't show um. It makes me sad that VT and ST get tossed aside as unworthy of breeding and such because they are... what exactly? All anyone says is "out of style" but how can a living being be out of style? It makes no sense to me. And how can a subtype of Betta with more genetic abnormalities be more disarable? What if they were specifically bred for health and positive interactions to humans and community environments? What kind of fish would be created through that kind of breeding?
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There is nothing wrong with the VT... just like nothing wrong with mutts. Some people want them... others do not. The reason we say not to breed is bettas often produce a lot of young and finding homes for a lot of fish is not easy. VT's are sold to pet shops for about 12 CENTS each. And the shops don't care enough to take care of them and I'm sure millions die every year on those cups. That right there should tell you their worth. They make great pets and are easy to obtain. Breed them if you want.. just take responsibility for the lives you create.

[Olympia]

Alright guys- I think it's time to step back and get back on topic here.
No hard feelings anywhere, I am hoping.

Bluewind- Honest, I don't think anyone here would have a problem with breeding VTs on this forum. The warnings people give though ARE fair warnings because it can be harder to find homes for VTs, even on this forum. Other than that, I don't think anyone has a problem with it. It can be frustrating hearing that 50 times, I know.

BasementBettas- I am sure no one meant to offend you. I apologize if anyone did.

The hobby attracts all sorts and it's important to remember we all have our different likes and dislikes when it comes to fish, but we shouldn't give others a hard time for what they are doing.

PS- Has anyone seen the VTs AquaStar has been pumping out lately? (Yes I'm a fancy colours person, myself). I bet if someone started breeding those kinds a lot of people would buy them as pets.

[Basement Bettas]

Originally Posted by Olympia

Alright guys- I think it's time to step back and get back on topic here.
No hard feelings anywhere, I am hoping.

Bluewind- Honest, I don't think anyone here would have a problem with breeding VTs on this forum. The warnings people give though ARE fair warnings because it can be harder to find homes for VTs, even on this forum. Other than that, I don't think anyone has a problem with it. It can be frustrating hearing that 50 times, I know.

BasementBettas- I am sure no one meant to offend you. I apologize if anyone did.

The hobby attracts all sorts and it's important to remember we all have our different likes and dislikes when it comes to fish, but we shouldn't give others a hard time for what they are doing.

PS- Has anyone seen the VTs AquaStar has been pumping out lately? (Yes I'm a fancy colours person, myself). I bet if someone started breeding those kinds a lot of people would buy them as pets.

I am not offended. Jut blunt. You want to breed pet bettas.. just be prepared for taking care of the offspring. I say that to anyone wanting to breed ANY kind of fish.

And this type of discussion does not belong in this section. I have not been here in a while.. got busy after the section was created and come back to find it over run with posts slamming the HM show fish and all the evaluate my pet shop find. Again. Those posts DO NOT belong here. You buy a fish on AB and you want a breeders opinion I will be more than happy to give it. I will discuss the finer points of form or color. Will discuss fill out entry forms or shipping. I do not care to wade through yet another discussion of why we don't have VT classes. And if you ask for my opinion you had better be prepared for the reply.

[ChoclateBetta]

I am against Pet store fish breeding let me say that they are usually too old to breed. They also carry bad genetics. It might be that Spade Tails are harder ro breed. It might be that like DTs that show ones are to breed.