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Old 12-22-2012, 10:42 PM   #21 
callistra
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The key with the dropsy meds is combination of quick acting, general broad range effectiveness and their ability to be easily absorbed internally. Can you find Maracyn Plus? That would be my second choice to Kanaplex. Otherwise Furan 2 has some potential followed by Erythromycin.. nowhere near the same potential as the first two meds but it's something to try if it's all you can find.
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Old 12-23-2012, 05:48 AM   #22 
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Is that a combo of maracyn and maracyn 2 or it is something different?
I went to check on her but the cup was empty. The little butthole jumped back into the tank. For someone who is supposedly near death, she is awfully fiesty. Should I just leave her in the tank since the whole thing is being treated with furan 2? No epsom though

I am beginning to suspect this is more then just an isolated case of dropsy. A week or so ago I though I seen something growing/eating away one of the other fish's lip but shrugged it off. Then I noticed a different one with an odd patch of white something on her tail end.

Last edited by Tikibirds; 12-23-2012 at 05:51 AM.
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:02 AM   #23 
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Tiki, for you I'll come back to this section lol :) I start posting in here, I end up spending all day posting in here :P

Dropsy is the buildup of fluid inside the body cavity or tissues of a fish. Dropsy is a symptom rather than a disease unto itself and can indicate a number of underlying causes including bacterial infections, parasitic infections or liver dysfunction.

Its characteristic appearance is a general bloating of the fish's body. Frequently, the fish's scales stand out from the body, giving it a pinecone-like appearance. Both of these signs are symptomatic of the same basic problem: a dangerous buildup of internal pressure. A tumor or swollen organ may be the cause. Or fluids may be building up in the internal cavity, the result of bacterial or viral infections. A massive infestation of internal parasites can produce dropsy. An intestinal blockage can produce signs of dropsy. Bloating, scale protrusion and pop-eye can also befall female fish that are ripe with eggs.

Frankly, it is nearly impossible for us to determine with any precision the underlying cause of a dropsy. This is why use of drugs to "cure" the problem meets with limited and unpredictable success. As often as not, the fish will live or die irrespective of drug treatment.

Most often a fish with dropsy dies. Perhaps not immediately, but within several months. Indeed, in instances where dropsy is caused by internal infections, the bloating will disappear for a time, only to return a bit later with a vengeance. Thus, many reports of dropsy "cures" are just misinterpretations of the temporary regression of the disease.

If you have recurrent problems with dropsy in different fish, you can rule out tumors, egg binding and other idiosyncratic causes. The most likely cause in such instances is either internal infection or intestinal blockage. The former frequently accompanies the latter.

I am inclined to think it's bacterial for you, as you mentioned another fish had the same symptoms, both having sores.

The treatment Darkmoon had wrote for dropsy would be the ideal one - as it will help with any bacteria infection. I can't promise you anything good.. not many survive once pineconing sets in.. but you just never know.

Performing daily 100% water changes. Increase the temperature to 84*F. Add 1-2 tsp/gal Epsom Salt. Use API General Cure OR API Erythromycin OR Maracyn II and/or Maracyn for best results. Feed something containing Metronidazole, for example, Jungle’s Anti-Parasite pellets.
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:47 AM   #24 
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I would quarantine as the infection associated with dropsy tends to be contagious.

Maracyn Plus is totally different.

Sorry but that treatment is mostly for internal parasite infection, and the antibiotic suggestion is outdated at best. It's definitely not ideal. I think that was written when less was understand and known about dropsy, it was almost always fatal and people were just trying to come up with the broadest most potent drug cocktail to try. Now we know more, have had a lot of success treating it and there are better drugs to try.

If it's bacterial in nature the antibiotics we're suggesting are much more likely to work. Maracyn II has no chance to work. Maracyn has a slight chance to work but far below Kanaplex, Maracyn Plus and Furan 2. In the past people were suggesting the two in combo as one is gram positive and one is gram negative and hoping that throwing something together broad range would work - however Minocyline is not a very effective drug in general and is no good internal and Erythromycin has just a long standing history of only being somewhat effective in cases like this. General Cure is an external parasite med cocktail, and while it does have one drug that can work on some bacterial infections it's a very light load for bacterial and much more punchy on parasite. In the water, it's extremely unlikely to work but fed it could.

I totally agree feeding metro along with the bacteria baths is a great idea and that is what I've mostly done in the past, but it's more stressful than treating antibiotics alone in the water. My experience with dropsy is that it tends to bacterial in nature, even if it's a secondary infection to a primary parasite infection (or visa versa), and it's the bacterial infection that's the fast killer part, so trying to get that under control without pushing the fish's kidney's which are already presumably over-stressed (hence the fluid buildup) out is the key here. Unless there is good evidence to suggest there is a primary parasite infection here, I would treat as bacterial. Jungle has discontinued their anti parasite fish food several years ago now (hense you can see where the advice is dated) but you can mix it up fresh using your own feed (so long as it's not NLS pellets because there's not enough wheat in them to soak) some garlic guard (garlic juice.. i would use organic and no additives) or dechlorinated water, one measure each of metro and focus, swish around soak for 10-15min and feed two twice a day for a minimum of two weeks and at least a full week past when symptoms appear to have totally cleared. Treatment for 3-4 weeks is more likely necessary in this approach, and even premedicated fish food suggest treatment for a month. You can also (unless that was discontinued recently) get some premedicated pellets from the goldfish connection but they are large and you will have to crush them. In my experience, fish don't like them and are more likely to eat the ones you soak yourself.

Last edited by callistra; 12-23-2012 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 12-23-2012, 03:16 PM   #25 
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The treatment I listed was wrote last year by someone who is a vet.. and who knows a great deal about treatments. The medications aren't necessarily just for parasites, the last part is an option - but the others cover what could be causing the dropsy, since we don't know what is causing this particular dropsy case, as there are multiple reasons that dropsy occurs.

Guess it needs updating.. was posted a year ago by a vet. Luckily I personally haven't had to deal with any diseases (other than one ich outbreak about 18yrs ago), so I don't know first hand - I base my thoughts on the last 1.5yrs of studying fish/bettas diseases. Haven't for the last few months though.. so I definitely am dusty.

I do agree about not pushing the internal organs, and honestly if one of mine had raised scales I would euthanize as it's rare for them to pull through and I don't wish to prolong a life that is only deteriorating. I don't recommend many medications, only if it is a must have, and I don't always keep track of the stronger ones. To me, trying to cover all bases sounded about right in this situation as no one knows the root of the problem. Why I suggested Darkmoon's treatment plan... as she really is one to trust when it comes to healing these little ones. But even the best can be outdated :)
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:29 PM   #26 
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I have jungle parasite pellets but they won't eat them, hence the reason why I was sokaing NLS pellets in metrodozinal. I also havev like 3 bottles of Jungle anti parasite guard stuff.

From what I have read - kannaplex is not recommened IF dropsy is caused by a kidney issue?

I'm not sure of she has a bacterial or parasite infection or both. She has a sore on her lip as do 2 others and she also does not have normal looking poops. I haven't seen stringy or white poop but it is not the normal cinnamon bun looking kind. They are very short and skinny and dark brownish in color. One of the other females has ALWAYS had a big belly from the day I got her several months ago. I suspected internal parasites so I treated her for that.

WB Myates :)
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:07 PM   #27 
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NLS don't work as soaking pellets because there's so little wheat in them they won't really soak anything.. Hikari work particularly well and puff up a lot, but pretty much any pellet will work but NLS. Up to you what route you want to take.. can only share my personal experience and success stories. Good luck.
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:35 PM   #28 
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Ah, poo. I just used up the last of my Hiraki pellets. All I have here other then New life spectrum pellets is Omega one flakes and tetra betta flakes.

Just tried Jungle's anti parasite pellets. The eat it then spit it back out
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:41 PM   #29 
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That was also my experience with the jungle. Most won't eat them. I mean.. smell them.. I wouldn't either ha. They smell all mediciney. You can try soaking the jungle in some garlic juice for a couple minutes, but I wouldn't for too long as you don't want to leach the meds out. Or you could just use the NLS as best you can until you can get to the store.

Not sure how you're doing this, but in the past when I've medicated pellets what I've done is use omega one or hikari. Put a little garlic guard (garlic juice no additives and ideally organic so no pesticides) in a small cup, or you could just use dechlorinatored water. One scoop of Metro and one scoop of Focus (seachem binding product supposed to make more of the med stick to the pellet). Add a few pellets and stir it up good. Let it soak 10-15minues and fed two. I did this twice a day - mixed up fresh each time because meds will lose their effectiveness. You could mix it up once a day and cover/refrigerate in between, then bring back to room temp too. If you don't have the focus you can just use your source of metro.

Last edited by callistra; 12-23-2012 at 10:44 PM.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:28 PM   #30 
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I use a betta cup and add water, then the metro and the pellets. Let it soak for 15 minutes and then try and fish all the pellets out of the cup. In the past, I have also used Jungle anti parasite fizzy tabs and soaked pellets in that. But I haven't seen that for a while. Wonder if it was discontinued?

Garlic is also supposed to also supposed to have anti parasite properties to it. Does it have to be a fresh garlic clove? Garlic powder??
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