is this normal?

[goinpostal]

Originally Posted by DragonFish

He was probably a little more active in the smaller tank because of the other male on the other side, not the size of the tank.
My guess is his lethargy before you started treatment was due to the cold water, bettas are tropical fish after all, but since that isn't the case now it could be a couple of things....
What is/was your regular water change schedule for the 1 gallon?

Thats some pretty heavy medicating for just some Ich....generally a couple of weeks in AQ salt at 83-85 should with daily water changes should do the trick.
How long were you treating for? When you moved him back into his 1 gallon, did you acclimate him back in? If so, how?

What sort of heater are you using? Does the temperature fluctuate? If so, how much? What sort of thermometer are you using? If you're heater is adjustable, go ahead and bump the temp down a couple of degrees over the next couple of hours to about 80. No need to keep it quite so high now that hes out of treatment.

The 'pink spots' from what I can see in the picture, look just like his normal coloring to me...though he does look a tad on the pale/sickly looking side.

Did you add conditioner into his water? What brand? Do you use regular tap water? Any chance any sort of soaps or chemicals could have gotten into his tank? Do you know your levels(Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, PH)?

a few hours have actually made a big difference for him. he is swimming around checking everything out i think he is ok now. i put the other back in his tank also but he isnt doing as good. he still isnt eating and hanging at the top of the tank...he is almost all pink on his body, just fins still red/blue. i dont have a very scientific method right now other than i have wrapped a towel around tank and placed closer and closer to a heater until i reached the temp i wanted because i couldnt find a small tank heater. i have one of those suction cup thermometers and the temp has stayed at 81 since this afternoon. my little red one is definately out danger now but the other is still in a rough spot.
water conditioner betta safe
tap water that sat out 24 hours with aquarium salt and water conditioner
no chance of soaps or chemicals
havent tested water because i did a complete clean out before putting them back in and it has sat there 24 hrs before i put them back. probably a stupid question but should i have checked the water levels before? i assumed it would be good since it was 100% change. i treated empty tank while they were in small tank before the clean out.

[DragonFish]

To me, this sounds like shock from improper acclimation.....when you added them back into their tanks, did you acclimate them back to the fresh/un-medicated water or did you just dump/net them right in?

The warmer temps for now are probably helping, but without a proper heater in their tanks you run the risk of stressful fluctuations which can compromise their immune systems just like lower temps. Being near your heater will help some, but even if the heater isn't turned off regularly the temperature around it is going to go through day-night fluctuations and so will your tanks, and especially in such a small volume of water its going to happen much too quickly.
Heaters are a must for all tropical fish, even if only to keep their homes at a stable temperature.

A 25 watt adjustable, fully submersible heater(stay away from the present or pad heaters)will work alright in a 1 gallon, but depending on how your tank is shaped and such it may be a tad awkward getting it to fit in there.....and 1 gallons can be difficult to keep at a stable temperature anyway as its such a small volume of water. On top of that, as far as a long-term home goes, with the exception of some very special cases 1 gallons are a bit small....
So, I would suggest an upgrade as well as a couple good heaters(if you're willing to order online, Amazon sells smaller 25 watts like the Hydor Theo for a good price. There is also the 50 watt Elite, which is really the same as their 25 watt, and is in fact adjustable) as soon as you can. You'll want something 2-2.5+ gallons for each of your boys(Petco is having their $1 per gallon sale ;) Also, Medium+ sized Kritter keepers make excellent small cheap tanks.....if you don't want two separate setups, you can get a 5+ gallon tank and divide it for both your boys....which you can move them into once they're feeling a little better of course). Something larger will be easier to stably heat and maintain and give them the proper amount of space to stretch their fins. ;)

Do you add salt regularly as a treatment? While thats probably not you're whole issue here, that could be a part of the problem....and if not, then it will certainly cause you issues in the future. Prolonged exposure to salt can be harmful to your fish, it should only be used 10-14 days at a time as a treatment for an illness. Go ahead and stop using that.
Also, I'd suggest picking up a good conditioner like Seachem Prime for your water. Prime will remove more of the harmful stuff from your water instantly then letting it sit out and using what you're using at the moment. Plus, ideally you want to match the temperature of your fresh water to the old water when you're doing water changes....letting it sit out just brings it down to a few degrees bellow the room temperature of whatever room you keep it in.

Testing the water is probably something you should have done, yes. Its always a good idea to keep an eye on your levels in your tank, and it never hurts to know the levels of your tap as well so you can compare and treat accordingly(like, if you have ammonia in your tap or something). If you tank samples of your water to a local pet store, they should be able to test it for you for free, but make sure they're using a liquid testing kit and not those inaccurate strips.
Since its all fresh water right now though, no need to rush and test anything right away. Might not be a horrible idea to see what you're tap is at though sometime soonish.
Eventually I would suggest picking up your very own liquid testing kit.....definitely a must for all keepers, one of the best tools you can have on your fishy shelf.

[goinpostal]

thank u so much for all that info....i ordered the heaters last night and i have 2 10 gallon setups that have been stored for awhile (hubby used to keep guppies) i might just get those ready and put in live plants and leave them in the one gallon until i get those cycled.is the ten gallon too large for a betta? i have never had bettas...i know nothing except for what i have read since i got them.
sorry for so many questions i just want to be sure i do everything i can for the little fellas....as far as the salt u said to discontinue using. should that only be used for treatment? i wasnt using it for the first few weeks but my husband told me to use it everytime and told me that is probably why they got ich because i had not been using it.
one more question....while still in the one gallon is 100% change everyday too often? i noticed this morning my weird little supposed to be blue guy's tank looked cloudy. he was put in yesterday from hospital tank. i changed his water again today and did a good rinse on his gravel but with him being sickly still i wasnt sure if i did more harm than good. thanks again for the info. one down, one to go :) crossing my fingers the other one starts doing better!

[DragonFish]

You're very welcome, glad to be of help. :)

10 gallons is certainly not too large for a betta at all. Thats a common misconception actually, that bettas prefer smaller tanks and larger ones bother them. No tank is ever too large when decorated properly...and because that can be a little on the expensive side, not everyone does, and then when they put their fish into their larger home they become stressed with the lack of cover...leading to the misconception.
I'd like to point out though that not all bettas are like that. Some do just fine with a couple of plants and a cave or two in a larger tank. But it does happen quite frequently, and I just wanted to explain that its usually because of a lack of proper cover(some do like more then others as well...a shyer betta especially)rather then the size of the tank. ;)

Just plant them both really well. Live plants would be fantastic(its okay if it looks a tad bare of course at first, the plants will grow in...just offer something floating like hornwart or Java moss. ;)), maybe a little driftwood to give it that natural look.
There is a fantastic amount of info on live plants here on this section of the forum:
http://www.bettafish.com/forumdisplay.php?f=147
And here is a wonderful thread on how to do a full Naturally Planted Tank, if thats a project you think you may want to take on with the live plants.
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=114575

Ah, never be sorry for questions! Questions are how you learn. ;)
Your fish didn't get ich because of a lack of salt. They likely got it because of their compromised immune systems in the cold water.
For bettas you should only use AQ salt as a treatment for some kind of illness(Ich/parasites, bad finrot...). I believe it may be alright and possibly beneficial to guppys, which is why Im sure your husband suggested it, but for bettas its actually harmful and dangerous if used regularly over time.
A much safer and better alternative as a regular additive for bettas is IAL(Indian Almond Leaf). It has a LOT of beneficial properties, including antifungal, and basically does what the salt is said to do....but better, IMO.

When you're doing some kind of treatment, 100% per day is not too much for a short period of time.....but regularly its not a good idea. You don't want TOO sterile of an environment, there is such a thing as too clean, but there is such a thing as too dirty as well and its really hard to hit that perfect middle ground in smaller tanks.
As a regular maintenance in a 1 gallon, I would say that 2 50-70%s and 1 100% per week should be about good.

The 100% change today probably won't hurt anything. Its possible some of the medication got in the water anyway.
Just be sure when you do a 100% change though to re-acclimate them back into the fresh water. Float their cup or container for about 15 minutes, pour out a little of their water in the cup/container, then add a little of the new. Repeat the process a couple/few times every ten minutes or so and then release them. :)

[sandybottom]

he looks skinny, what and how much do you feed him?

[sandybottom]

you can put him in a 10 gallon with lots of plants. since it would be one betta in this,you can fish-in cycle your tank. just get a test kit and do 50% change weekly. make sure the plants are in good condition. i have mine in 10 gallon tanks. and with enough cover, they absolutely love the space. mine actively swim around all day. back before i knew nothing about bettas, i kept mine in a un-filtered,non-heated , with weekly water changes in a half gallon bowl. now i would never keep a fish in a tank that is smaller than a five gallon. they are just different fish once you give them a proper home. these fish can be very active.

[goinpostal]

i was feeding him 2 pellets of yardley betta pellets in am and 2 in evening but i had to cut them up for him because he only ate when i did that...he stopped eating while he was sick.now he is acting ravenous and 2 doesnt seem to be doing it for him but i am afraid to give him more than that. my other still wont eat and is hanging at the top with his fins clamped.i just dont know what else i can do for him :(

[sandybottom]

red heat lamps work good for a heat source too. you can heat two small tanks at once with one. i test my new water before i put my fish in. a couple times a year ,they flush the lines and add a bunch of chemicals. all of a sudden i see a ph spike or smell excess chlorine in my tap. you can't always see the dangers in water. this will not effect you if you are on a well. sounds like acclimation problems.

[callistra]

I haven't read the whole thread - but to comment on your feeding the food you are using is full of wheat and fillers and can cause constipation issues. I would look for Omega One Betta Buffet (feed 3-4 split up into 2 feedings with one fast day a week) or New Life Spectrum Betta (feed 5-8 split up into 2 or 3 feedings with one fast day a week).

I agree he needs a larger container and warm him up too. 2.5g is minimum - requires one 50% and one 100% water change a week. 5g makes it tons easier to keep him healthy - can be cycled but if uncyled requires one 100% change a week. Cyling: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=47838

How to do a large water change without shocking your betta:

To do a water change, use a little cup like a plastic solo cup - this cup must be only for him and have never been used with soap or other chems. Scoop him up in this cup (keep him in the cup about 1/4 full of water - it doesn't need to be much because he won't be in it for long) and leave him in the cup while you change his water. To do the 50% use a turkey baster - dedicated only to him that has never seen soap or chems - and drag it through the gravel and try to suck as much of the poop out as possible, in addition to 50% of the water. Use a thermometer under the running tap to get it to be the same temp as the water that is normally in his tank. When the thermometer says the flowing tap is the right temp, fill back up his tank. At this point, add the conditioner (dose for how much water you change - if you change half the water you add half gallon worth of conditioner, If you do a 100% water change dose for the full gallon change). Float his plastic cup with him in it in the new water. Slowly add a couple tablespoons of the new water into his cup every 10 minutes for at least an hour. Finally, dump him in gently but try to get as little of the old cup water back into the tank as possible. When you do the weekly 100% you will do mostly the same thing except empty his tank fully and rinse everything in it very well under warm water but never use soaps or chemicals. Once it's fully cleaned/rinsed you can refill it and repeat the cup/acclimate phase.

[goinpostal]

the first is my little psycho red guy...he is feeling like a champ now...the 2nd and 3rd is my blue and red that is now blue, red and peach? i dunno but what worries me is when he does swim which has not been much over the last few days he only goes down a few inches then right back up and hangs in that corner.he is now on 5th day with no eating :( i did a complete water change again today water temp steady 81 in both tanks. pics arent great because they were taken with my cell.