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Old 12-23-2012, 02:39 PM   #1 
iGoatfish
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Unhappy Blown out belly

So yesterday I found one of my females dead with her stomach opened. This was right after a breeding so didn't think much of it and left it as she was just stressed from breeding. I did a 50% water change. Then today awoke to find a second female dead with the same opened stomach thing. Since i was on my way to work i quickly individually jared the three remaing females and did a 100% water change and the tank that is now sitting empty. Also not having having salt on hand but i do have a salt water tank. I filled the the jars 15% with sea water. So my questions are what is going on with my females? And when treating fish with salt what should the spicific gravity be?
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Old 12-23-2012, 03:23 PM   #2 
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Sea water? Bettas don't live in salt water. They are fresh water tropical fish. I would not mix in salt water like that.. if you want to treat with salt you was fresh water aquarium salt at 1 tsp per gallon predissolved.

They may be attacked by another female that started eating on her. Hard to say.
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Old 12-23-2012, 05:25 PM   #3 
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Aquarium salt is evaperated seawater. and spicific gravity a very accurate way mesering the amount of salt in water. But thanks for trying.
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Old 12-23-2012, 05:52 PM   #4 
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And btw thanks for letting me know bettas are fresh water fish. Really
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Old 12-23-2012, 05:52 PM   #5 
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ACtually the salt you use in a marine salt water tank is not the same as pure sodium chloride. I highly suggest not using it. There are many other types of salts and elements in the marine salt mix. This is what you want if you want to give them 10 days or less of a salt treatment at 1 tsp per gallon predissolved: http://www.google.com/shopping/produ...ed=0CFUQ8wIwAA
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Old 12-23-2012, 05:56 PM   #6 
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Actually, aquarium salt and sea salt are not the same thing. There is also a reason why it specifically says that aquarium salt is for freshwater fish on the container that it comes in. I can't give you specifics, and yes, AQ salt may be made with sea salt, but it is made specifically for freshwater fish for specific purposes. No need to be rude.
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Old 12-23-2012, 06:06 PM   #7 
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Sorry if came off as rude but I just lost two of my best breeders and i am a little frustrated.
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Old 12-23-2012, 06:45 PM   #8 
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I understand. Callistra was just trying to help. I also don't recommend using the salt from saltwater aquariums.
It's hard to diagnose the problems with no other symptoms, but if the blown out belly is what caused the death then it is likely an internal problem of sorts, which would be treated with Epsom Salt anyways, starting at 1tsp per gallon and building up to 3 tsps per gallon. Epsom salt, unlike aquarium salt, is mild and can be used long term without the threat of harming the fish.
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Old 12-23-2012, 08:54 PM   #9 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iGoatfish View Post
Aquarium salt is evaperated seawater. and spicific gravity a very accurate way mesering the amount of salt in water. But thanks for trying.
Yes, specific gravity is a very accurate method of determining the salt concentration. And you asked, so.....

From what I've seen recommended on this site, the amount of salt recommended for treatment on this website ranges from 1 to 3 teaspoons per gallon. For this calculation, I'll go with the higher dosage of 3 teaspoons per gallon.

The water used in freshwater aquariums is NOT pure water. There are some dissolved salts in it already. That said, I have no way of knowing the specific gravity of your particular water, so I'll do the calculation using PURE water (H2O). The density of pure water is 1.000 g/mL at 4C.

I don't know the exact makeup of "Aquarium Salt," but people here appear to be referring specifically to sodium chloride. (I've seen it listed online as both NaCl, and as 'evaporated sea water.') I'll use pure NaCl for the calculation to simplify things. (If you want it redone later using evaporated sea water, let me know.)

One U.S. teaspoon of pure NaCl has a mass of approximately 6.1 grams NaCl.

Adding three teaspoons of NaCl to 1 gallon of PURE water would result in 18.3 g NaCl added to 3,785 g H2O. This would provide a 0.48% NaCl solution.

Assuming that the volume of 18.3 g NaCl dissolved in 1 gallon pure H2O is negligible, this would result in a density of 1.0048 g/mL at 4C. (Keeping to three decimal places, this would be 1.005 g/mL at 4C).

Or, if you prefer, the recommended dosage of NaCl in pure H2O would yield a specific gravity of 1.0048 at 4 degrees C.

However, the above calculations were done at 4C. For Bettas, whose tank is closer to 79F (26C), the density of pure water is closer to 0.997 g/mL. (Keeping to three decimal places.) So you'll need to take into account the temperature difference between 4C and your fish tank (approximately 26C) when you determine the SG.

For SEA water: the density of sea water ranges from approximately 1.020 to 1.029 g/mL, depending on temperature, and contains 3.5% salt. (At the surface, the average density of sea water is approximately 1.025 g/mL.) Thus, there is MUCH more dissolved salt (of various types, not just NaCl) in sea water.

Personally, I'd find it easier to just add 1-3 teaspoons of Aquarium Salt into a gallon of the tap water that I use for the Betta's tank, if my fish needed treatment. And I would find it difficult to measure the tiny increase in specific gravity using anything I have at home, but you may have equipment sensitive enough to do this....

Thanks - I enjoyed this opportunity to do some calculations. LOL. I've been a little bored today.

(Various internet sources were used to look up information.)

Last edited by LittleBlueFishlets; 12-23-2012 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:51 AM   #10 
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If you want the SG for a 3 tsp per gallon Epsom salt treatment*:

Per internet sources, Epsom salt (MgSO4*7 H2O) has a density of 1.68 g/mL. And one US teaspoon has a volume of 5 mL.

Therefore, each tsp would contain 8.4 grams of Epsom salt.
(1.68 g/mL x 5 mL = 8.4 g Epsom salt.)

Adding 3 teaspoons of Epsom salt to a gallon of pure H2O, would mean adding 25.2 g Epsom salt to 3,785 mL H2O.

Assuming that the addition of this amount of Epsom salt to a gallon of water would have a negligible increase in total volume, then adding 3 tsp Epsom salt to a gallon of water would result in a density of 1.0067 g/mL:
[(25.2g + 3,785g) total mass / 3,785 mL total volume = 1.0067 g/mL]

The density of pure H2O at 4C is 1.000 g/mL.

So the specific gravity of the Epsom salt solution at 4C, would be 1.0067.
[1.0067 g/mL Epsom salt solution / 1.000 g/mL H2O at 4 C = 1.0067]

As before, if the SG of your tank water is not 1.000, then you'll need to adjust the calculation.

[*Please note that I am not commenting on the use of any type of salt (Epsom, Aquarium, Seawater, or table), or making any suggestions pertaining to the treatment of your fish..... It's just that you'd asked for the SG of the solution, so I've done a few calculations. Also, please note that I've obtained information from various internet sources, without verifying the accuracy of the information. And I've made some assumptions, such as the addition of the salt would not result in a dramatic increase of the overall volume, etc. Plus, I'm writing this current post at a ridiculous hour of the night, so you may want to check my math. LOL..... Finally, I've tried to include my calculations in this post, so that you can replicate the process if you opt to calculate SG for other salt solutions. ]

Last edited by LittleBlueFishlets; 12-24-2012 at 01:53 AM.
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