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Old 12-29-2012, 08:49 PM   #31 
callistra
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This is the last I'll say in this thread, but I have to say this..

He may be more sensitive than your other fish. I don't doubt that. The smallest amount of ammonia may upset his system a lot faster than your hardy boys, which may be able to live with low levels and traces for years without showing any symptoms. That doesn't mean if you kept his water absolutely pristine he'd have no chance, or even just made the smallest change.. who knows where.. he wouldn't stand a chance. We don't know, because you won't even share with us info in that link about your keeping habits.. and I've tried to do a search but you haven't shared it anywhere else either that I've found.

All I've found is thread after thread about (same betta?) your boy with bloat issues, all during this past month now. I see only very short term use of epsoms (very barely 1 week which has no time to help with internal infections).. I see no use of kanaplex or maracyn plus.. I see no feeding of meds which is the best thing you can do for an internal infection.. I’ve seen lots of use of high levels of salt, which can cause dropsy and lots of harsh meds used to treat external parasite infections when he doesn’t have any..Use of flakes which can cause bloating and constipation issues.. If I had realized you were using aquarium salt along with a belly like that I wouldn’t have told you how to do it.. this is why it’s always good to ask for more info instead of just answering the OP’s question, so I suppose part of this can fall upon me for not inquiring further about why you were opting for certain treatments instead of just answering your direct question. Tonic salt is most definitely AQ by the way, not epsoms.

I find this and threads that say you just recently started betta keeping about 5 months ago.. I certainly wouldn't expect to you have problems with an average healthy betta in that time to be able to compare to a sensitive one. I'm sure you're doing the best you can but to say "Oh well I know everything and I’m absolutely sure all my habits are perfect and there’s no way someone could find a bit here and there that I might be able to change to help him, even share info with others to see if maybe there's some things I've missed because there's no way that's happened so I'm just going to end this life" it a little.. bad taste in my mouth. I mean a month ago you didn’t even know what Velvet looked like on a betta.. Idk sorry.

It’s okay to not know. It’s okay to ask questions. Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone has to learn sometimes, but I’m sorry your treatment of him to date has had no shot at his recovery, and a lot of the stuff you've done like the malachite green and AQ and flakes if anything would have just made things worse. I remember you now from other threads now I've had a chance to look them up. Hope your little one's suffering is short then. I suggest not bringing home rescue bettas. They take a lot of work and perseverance... and sometimes they cost more money.

Last edited by callistra; 12-29-2012 at 08:53 PM.
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:51 PM   #32 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChoclateBetta View Post
Killing and euthanising are the same. But maybe add IAL to the tank the help with Immune system. Before euthanising lets try a lot of other stuff..
Murder:
1. To kill (another human) unlawfully.
2. To kill brutally or inhumanly.

Euthanasia:
the act or practice of killing or permitting the death of hopelessly sick or injured individuals (as persons or domestic animals) in a relatively painless way for reasons of mercy

No, they are NOT the same! I am not a murderer! (A murderer wouldn't mind watching their pet sit there sick and dying and not do anything about it.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kithy View Post
I feel the same way about it but sometimes there isn't another way to stop the suffering. The only time my husband had to was a very sad situation of someone tormenting a feeder rat and my husband had no choice. I don't think your fish is that bad off though.

I've known tons of people who see their pets suffering and they ignore it entirely. It's so frustrating.

Gosh, I don't even know where to get clove oil.
That is horrible. I hate animal abuse! :/ I would consider myself abusing my Betta if I kept him alive, because he keeps getting sick and never seems to be OK. Now that he has dropsy, he will be in a lot of pain aswell. I do not want him to be and I also can't afford to spend big money to keep him alive, just to have him die some time later from a short life etc. It is unfair on the both of us. I love him enough to put him down, to stop his pain and suffering.. I know that's more than a LOT of pet owners are.

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Originally Posted by Kithy View Post
Yeah.. thinking about it bothers me. I suppose if it had to be done I'd get someone else to do it. My husband is fortunate in a way he can detach himself from situations like that. It would haunt me forever.
Yeah, I'm like you. I could never do something so.. "sickening". That would haunt me, too. Especially if it was a beloved pet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LebronTheBetta View Post
CB, stop. You're not making Moons feel better, isn't her betta dying enough? Killing isn't the same as euthanizing. Killing is when you're destroying life viciously and intentionally; you wouldn't care if the creature feels pain or not. In euthanizing, the euthanizer finds the most humane way to path the animal to it's better home. Trying other "meds" will prolong his pain, there's only a 10% chance of surviving dropsy anways. I'm sorry, Moons. :(
Thank you, Lebron. I posted this thread to ask advice on euthanasia - this is my first time. I wasn't asking to get a big lecture or judged about what I am doing. That is HORRIBLE. I love my fish enough to stop his pain. Isn't that what any respectable pet owner would be like? He is always sick. Always. And he is really suffering - I can tell. I'm attached enough to him to know these things. I do not want to make him suffer anymore because I put my feelings first and try to keep him alive. It's just not fair on either of us. I also can't afford to pay for more and more medications to keep one fish a live when things are expensive here and resources are tight enough as it is.

Thank you for your support, it really means a lot. This is hard for me - I have never been the one to have to euthanize. This is really traumatizing enough for me. :/

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Old 12-29-2012, 08:53 PM   #33 
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Sorry, I didn't read that part. I will fill it in right now.
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:56 PM   #34 
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Also, I have just asked a friend of mine (who is a vet) to come around and check on my fish. They have confirmed that he has dropsy. I'm not that stupid..
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:00 PM   #35 
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Hey there,

I cringe to think that some people use beheading/spin snapping, I believe it to be very cruel and inhumane but I am not here to debate about that now. Freezing is not humane as it is not a fast process and the fish will become extremely uncomfortable and distressed. Flushing is extremely cruel, most fish survive the flushing process and die a slow, horrible death in the sewers

As far as I am concerned the only humane way to euthenaise a fish is clove oil but again it is only humane if done correctly.

Put your betta in a container in four litres of water and add three drops of clove oil, stirring gently to mix it with the water. Wait for five minutes and add another three drops. Then wait another five minutes and add another three drops. Continue to do this until your fish no longer appears to be breathing. Also I would leave the betta in this solution for maybe an hour just to make sure......

The first few drops will send the betta to sleep but not kill him. (Salmon farmers use a few drops of clove oil to antithesise the salmon while they collect their eggs for human consumption. The clove oil is used so that the salmon do not become stressed and they wake up and are fine after about 8 minutes). An overdose with clove oil will euthanaise the fish and it will die a pain free death.

The use of clove oil is some what controversial but I have used it and as long as it is done correctly the fish seem to die a peaceful pain free death. If a lot of clove oil is added quickly to the water the fish will become stressed and dart about (not a nice experience) which is why it is extremely important to add the oil at five minute intivals and in small doses.

Whether you decide to let him die naturally or use the clove oil is up to you. I have never used clove oil on a betta (but have on other fish). I usually let them die naturally but with dropsy...... it can be very cruel and sometimes I think clove oil is the least distressing option for both fish and owner.

You can purchase clove oil at your local chemist, it is used to relieve tooth ache in humans..... it is reasonably cheap, I think I paid about $8

With whatever you decide goodluck and we are thinking of you
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:08 PM   #36 
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Housing
What size is your tank? 80L
What temperature is your tank? 28C
Does your tank have a filter? Yes. Inbuilt.
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? Built into the filter.
Is your tank heated? Yes..
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? Himself now, but he was in with 8 tetra and a pleco.

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Micro-worms, dried shrimp, pellet flake things..
How often do you feed your betta fish? I feed HIM 5-6 times a week, nightly.

Maintenance
How often do you perform a water change? 50% weekly, 100% monthly.
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? Stated above.
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Water conditioner to his tank.

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
pH: 7.0
Hardness: I don't know?
Alkalinity: 100

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Bloated belly - getting larger. Grey belly. Raised scales. Red at both ends of tail. Popped eyes. Gills not closing properly - and turning black.
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Lethergy - extremely unactive. Cannot swim, sinks to the bottom. Won't eat.
When did you start noticing the symptoms? Dropsy just occured two days ago.
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how?I have treated him for a few things since I've had him... Tonic Salt, Epsom Salt, Malachite green, Wunder tonic, IAL, stresszyme, Marclyn plus, peas, fasting etc.
Does your fish have any history of being ill? Yes, a lot. With me and past owners. (He was a rescue Betta who was treated very poorly)
How old is your fish (approximately)? I'm not sure. Not too old.
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:09 PM   #37 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veggiegirl View Post
Hey there,

I cringe to think that some people use beheading/spin snapping, I believe it to be very cruel and inhumane but I am not here to debate about that now. Freezing is not humane as it is not a fast process and the fish will become extremely uncomfortable and distressed. Flushing is extremely cruel, most fish survive the flushing process and die a slow, horrible death in the sewers

As far as I am concerned the only humane way to euthenaise a fish is clove oil but again it is only humane if done correctly.

Put your betta in a container in four litres of water and add three drops of clove oil, stirring gently to mix it with the water. Wait for five minutes and add another three drops. Then wait another five minutes and add another three drops. Continue to do this until your fish no longer appears to be breathing. Also I would leave the betta in this solution for maybe an hour just to make sure......

The first few drops will send the betta to sleep but not kill him. (Salmon farmers use a few drops of clove oil to antithesise the salmon while they collect their eggs for human consumption. The clove oil is used so that the salmon do not become stressed and they wake up and are fine after about 8 minutes). An overdose with clove oil will euthanaise the fish and it will die a pain free death.

The use of clove oil is some what controversial but I have used it and as long as it is done correctly the fish seem to die a peaceful pain free death. If a lot of clove oil is added quickly to the water the fish will become stressed and dart about (not a nice experience) which is why it is extremely important to add the oil at five minute intivals and in small doses.

Whether you decide to let him die naturally or use the clove oil is up to you. I have never used clove oil on a betta (but have on other fish). I usually let them die naturally but with dropsy...... it can be very cruel and sometimes I think clove oil is the least distressing option for both fish and owner.

You can purchase clove oil at your local chemist, it is used to relieve tooth ache in humans..... it is reasonably cheap, I think I paid about $8

With whatever you decide goodluck and we are thinking of you
Thank you This is what I wanted to know.
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:15 PM   #38 
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Also, tis not the same Betta.
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:18 PM   #39 
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No matter how it works out bless you for having your heart in the right place. Having a pet is one of the hardest things because no matter what you get as a companion you know that one day you will have to say goodbye forever. And that moment is always lingering in the back of your head, whether healthy or sick. You think you can prepare yourself for it but you just can't, no matter what.

Recently we've had to put a couple of cats down. Some were "easy" (old, very old, sick) but others not such. It was a matter of we could do testing and maybe the cat will get better but we don't have the money or it might be too stressful. Putting an animal down for any reason is hard, especially when you just can't do anything about it.

So please don't ever feel like you've failed like so many pet owners feel, you've kept him going the best you could with what you have available. I still owe a buttload of money on carecredit for my dog's surgery which was an emergency. I'll pay it off someday but well... it's not in my power.

I don't want anyone thinking my husband is heartless though >.< It was an awful situation of his friend getting "bored" with the rat and doing something awful to it. My husband decided that since the poor thing was in such awful pain he had to do something right there. Maybe not a great decision but he did what he could out of mercy. That friend of his is the worst kind of person. My husband had to save a poor little kitten from him and we eventually gave that cat a better home. People that can hurt an animal out of anger, frustration or "bored" are just cruel and I'm glad I've seen no one like this here.

Bless you, moonsand, for being a good owner :)
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:24 PM   #40 
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My fish doesn't "Deserve to die" and I have been treating him "wrongly" apparently. I'm not a good fish owner and I never said I was. I feel really horrible right now because I know I have sort of failed on my behalf..

Thank you though. :) And Your husband isn't cruel don't worry! (I know how people can detach, my best friend works on a meat farm and has to snap lambs necks etc for fresh cool :/)
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