Betta Fish Care  
Go Back   Betta Fish and Betta Fish Care > Breeding Betta Fish
Check out the eBook Betta Fish Care Made Easy
betta fish
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-24-2013, 09:41 AM   #121 
ChibreneyDragon
Member
 
ChibreneyDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: South Carolina
I walked into walmart last night to pick up some API ammonia tester... I saw a CT and a VT in THE SAME CUP. And the service member was STANDING RIGHT THERE. He was with a customer.

I actually flipped out and found a cup and proper lid and put the beat up CT in a separate cup while the walmart guy and customer watched me with open mouths....

I was so pissed...cause I was pretty sure they were friends and had done it on PURPOSE!

*shrieks*
ChibreneyDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 10:38 AM   #122 
indjo
TFK Moderator
 
indjo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleBlueFishlets View Post
If could be difficult to show whether egg eating has a genetic factor. There are so many other variables going on at the same time.... For example:

What about breeding techniques? If they've changed, this could affect egg eating. What about the effects of reducing stress levels? (I'd think that less stress = less egg eating.)

What about environmental conditions? Even the water itself could be a factor. (Harder, softer, pH, , etc.)
This is not scientific, just my experience so we can compare notes.

I never had a problem with egg eaters until I lost my line. My current bettas are newly bought or fry from them and most of them are egg eaters. Spawn - artificial hatch is a standard means of reproduction nowadays.

I've notice that too young males are often egg eaters. If they're not "psychotic" they may change if respawned at a much later age (over 1 month rest). This works better if the spawning tank environment differs to his solitary tank (planted - bare). Water and stress, doesn't seem to influence them - clean new water or old aged water, IAL or none, left alone until fry are free swimming or watched constantly, etc.

The psychotic ones will never change regardless of method, environment, or stress. But there is still hope for his fry - IME if I hand feed them during their first few days to a week (wriggle finger on the water surface to "call" fry, then feed) some may become good daddies. If they're left to fend for themselves, they will be like their daddy. In turn fry from good daddies may later become good daddies. But most will be like grand dad.

In short, I do believe that fry "learn" to become good daddies, although heredity plays a big role too and is often a bigger determinant.
indjo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 12:10 PM   #123 
LadyVictorian
Member
 
LadyVictorian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Coon Rapids, MN
So do you think egg eaters are really a problem created by the males breeder? Perhaps it was something they did to stunt the males learning curb on how he would take care of his future offspring? In other words egg eating though it could exist on some genetic level could be nurture vs nature.
LadyVictorian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 01:59 PM   #124 
chardzard
Member
 
chardzard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bridgtown Barbados
Quote:
Originally Posted by indjo View Post
This is not scientific, just my experience so we can compare notes.

I never had a problem with egg eaters until I lost my line. My current bettas are newly bought or fry from them and most of them are egg eaters. Spawn - artificial hatch is a standard means of reproduction nowadays.

I've notice that too young males are often egg eaters. If they're not "psychotic" they may change if respawned at a much later age (over 1 month rest). This works better if the spawning tank environment differs to his solitary tank (planted - bare). Water and stress, doesn't seem to influence them - clean new water or old aged water, IAL or none, left alone until fry are free swimming or watched constantly, etc.

The psychotic ones will never change regardless of method, environment, or stress. But there is still hope for his fry - IME if I hand feed them during their first few days to a week (wriggle finger on the water surface to "call" fry, then feed) some may become good daddies. If they're left to fend for themselves, they will be like their daddy. In turn fry from good daddies may later become good daddies. But most will be like grand dad.

In short, I do believe that fry "learn" to become good daddies, although heredity plays a big role too and is often a bigger determinant.
so from wat you have seen so far it may be a pass down mmmmmm that a very thin line some of us do have a similer behavor but just like i said in a earlyer post and you said it too "egg-eaters "dont change , my frist egg-eater was a steel blue king CT but to be honest i cant remember if any if the fry i ever save turn out like that not sure well i was a noob breeder at that time i use to put all my spawns in 1 grow tank not grow out , wish i had met you guys about 10 years ago, right 1 of my friends have a egg-eater n i know he dont feed his bettas some as long 3 days yea but some fish keepers here dont go online and get any info on any fish , i'll ask him for 1 of the egg-eaters and do a test and keep u guys posted on the out come later this year
chardzard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 04:17 PM   #125 
inareverie85
Member
 
inareverie85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: SE Louisiana
I fall more toward the "nature" side of the argument. Though I do think that fish are definitely capable of learning simple behaviors, I think they mainly behave out of instinct, especially concerning things that they have never done before (spawning).

Also, I don't think anyone particularly likes dealing with egg eaters, so I don't believe that this problem, if it is indeed genetic, was ever intended. If it is genetic, it results from breeding too many egg-eaters and passing down bad parenting instincts.

There are many other factors that also go into egg-eating however. Some have said that chronic tail-biters seem to eat their eggs more often. Since tail-biting is often due to stress, we can then assume that fish that are more naturally nervous will bite their tails and perhaps act out in other ways, such as eating their eggs.

Another thing, too, is that when spawning their bettas, people peek in every hour or even less and give the fish no privacy to do their thing. Not only can this delay the actual embrace between the pair, as the interference creates a huge distraction, but it can also affect the male after the actual spawn process.. This constant interference can trigger stress in a new dad who is trying to organize a clutch of eggs in his nest. When I spawn my fish, I cover all sides of the spawn tank, so that they can't see me. I peek over the top of the tank to monitor the activity of the male and female. I check for eggs only once per day unless I know I am dealing with extremely aggressive fish (where the other could be in danger if left in too long).

It's always good to know your fish before you breed it.
inareverie85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 04:31 PM   #126 
chardzard
Member
 
chardzard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bridgtown Barbados
the peek into the tank thing is a yes n know some fish dont mind u at all n some will stop till u move for me i only know my fish really know them after they do they first spawn the only blocking out i do is the side to stop them from seeing each other , wat i do is set up all frist timer 2 days before the female come to the tank so they see me all the time 1 other thing i add to my spawning tank is live stargrass it much softer that hornworth did i spell that right(foxtail) it work for the female n the fry by do ing so they dont get spoke by me checking on them
chardzard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 08:19 PM   #127 
ChibreneyDragon
Member
 
ChibreneyDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: South Carolina
Quote:
Originally Posted by inareverie85 View Post
Also, I don't think anyone particularly likes dealing with egg eaters, so I don't believe that this problem, if it is indeed genetic, was ever intended. If it is genetic, it results from breeding too many egg-eaters and passing down bad parenting instincts.

There are many other factors that also go into egg-eating however. Some have said that chronic tail-biters seem to eat their eggs more often. Since tail-biting is often due to stress, we can then assume that fish that are more naturally nervous will bite their tails and perhaps act out in other ways, such as eating their eggs.
The reason I am researching this, is because it has been proven that detrimental habits and weaknesses can be carried along with positive, highly desirable traits. The coding of DNA becomes a repeater to strengthen certain traits as we continuously breed for specified colors or fin types, and unfortunately, the bad issues follow.
ChibreneyDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2013, 05:01 AM   #128 
chardzard
Member
 
chardzard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bridgtown Barbados
i just remember something i read in 1 of the breeding now if the females are best at passing on the the gene for fins and so on then wont she all so pass on the most bad traits too we keep looking at the male when he eat the eggs but if all of wat ur saying is so then any females that are offsprin of a egg eater would be a more risk than a male would if all of this is true but for right now i want to breed some nice sexxy fish that in a year or 2 i can sell some overseas
chardzard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2013, 10:15 AM   #129 
indjo
TFK Moderator
 
indjo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
I don't think egg eating nor tail biting were ever intended, not in the beginning anyway. I believe it was a "side effect" from excessive inbreeding (or small gene pool, so to speak) and mass production - as CD implied. But I have no idea how either influence behavior though. I do believe a few show breeders do prefer if their lines were hard to breed. Thus not just anyone can reproduce them.

IMO egg eating behavior is more influenced by the male. Females from egg eating dads bred with unrelated good daddies produce good daddies. At least I've never got egg eating offspring from such pairing. This is why I believe that they do learn parental behavior (I often leave male with fry for at least 1 month, sometimes longer).

I don't think peeking causes egg eating. Half of my breeding tubs/tank are black tubs. Imagine how dark it would be if it were totally covered during the whole breeding process. The psychotic males will still eat his eggs/fry. Imagine a 1g regular glass tank. A good dad wouldn't mind my moving plants around with a chopstick/siphon looking for wastes (I use old aged water/tank for breeding).
indjo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2013, 04:42 PM   #130 
chardzard
Member
 
chardzard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bridgtown Barbados
yea the lest time my males spend in tank is 2 weeks a pet store owner that breeds bettas all so told me he keep a breeding pair in a large tank that hold over 200 gal of water n let them spawn 2-4 times and then he move them to an other tank same size
chardzard is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is he show/breeding quality? Foxers Show Bettas 12 12-30-2012 10:55 PM
How do they show Betta at a show? sstacy19 Betta Chat 12 10-16-2012 11:15 PM
this goes to show! fishy friend2 Betta Fish Bowls, Habitats, and Accessories 4 03-10-2012 08:43 PM
Another post for helping with breeding: breeding with genes that don't breed true. MrVampire181 Breeding Betta Fish 3 08-24-2009 07:21 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.