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Old 01-17-2013, 02:50 PM   #51 
Bluewind
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Thanks! So US had 15,000 murders, but has about 1/5th the population of the US so a comprable amount of murders in that populace would be 3000, but there were only 648 which means US had a rate that was about 4 to 5 times that of the UK, but with lower rates of other crimes. Odd. Less killing but more violence. Also factoring in the precentage of population killed in the US, it would be... what? 1/20,000? That's 0.005% while other crimes are lower. Assault 1.2% US with UK at about 2.8%. Rap 0.4% US with UK 0.9%. I need to do more research on this...
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:00 PM   #52 
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I am quite a paranoid person (have a lot of anxiety issues about bad things happening), but I never have had such a fear of having my house broken into that I felt I required a gun for safety. Even when I am home alone and both sets of neighbours are out.

It just seems to someone not living in America that Americans seem to have a high level of paranoia in regards to 'bad' people and their own Government, which seems to be one of the driving forces behind gun ownership.

Someone on another forum I lurk on said that anyone without a gun was a potential victim. I think walking around with that mantra in your head is only making you more victimised as it becomes necessary for you to constantly be carrying because you are always worried about being attacked by someone else.

I have to say even when I was standing alone at a bus stop in a less than savoury neighbourhood and some man was making lewd gestures at me, my immediate thought wasn't that I wish I had a gun so I could blow his head off.

I just think it becomes a slippery slope where everyone has to be armed because they are afraid of everyone else. It seems a lot of Americans don't see it that way, but as an Australian a lot of the news articles I read and people I see speaking on the matter seem to present it that way.

It always makes me think of the Old West when people say that if someone had a gun at the time that one of these mass shootings occur they could have disabled the shooter. I mean what happens if the shooter rather than surrender or commit suicides engages in a shoot-out with you? Or what happens if under a moment of panic you accidentally shoot and kill an innocent bystander? Also I think people tend to overestimate their skill level. It is very hard to shoot a moving target when you are under incredible stress. It's why soldiers and policemen have to undergo such rigorous training.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:06 PM   #53 
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Uhhh I don't know what statistics you are trying to calculate BlueWind but....

Adding onto my previous post, some extra math:

Guns cause 73% of murders in the US

Guns cause 5% of murders in the UK

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Originally Posted by LittleBettaFish View Post
I have to say even when I was standing alone at a bus stop in a less than savoury neighbourhood and some man was making lewd gestures at me, my immediate thought wasn't that I wish I had a gun so I could blow his head off.
You cannot be serious. You can't just "blow somebody's head off" because they were making lewd gestures at you. Maybe they had Tourettes Syndrome and they can't help it. You simply cannot assume that everybody you meet who is a stranger is going to do something bad to you. This is why people can't have nice things.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:09 PM   #54 
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I was saying that I felt I didn't need a gun to deal with the situation. Instead I just stood my ground and he eventually wandered past and that was that.

I just have never felt a particular need to carry a gun around to feel safe.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:11 PM   #55 
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Ah, my apologies, I read it too fast out of shock LOL. I retract my statement about LBF but I sadly have a few people on my facebook wall who think like that. They were promptly deleted.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:13 PM   #56 
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Haha no worries. I don't regularly blow people's heads off. Unless perhaps there was some kind of zombie apocalypse.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:16 PM   #57 
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Originally Posted by LittleBettaFish View Post
I am quite a paranoid person (have a lot of anxiety issues about bad things happening), but I never have had such a fear of having my house broken into that I felt I required a gun for safety. Even when I am home alone and both sets of neighbours are out.

It just seems to someone not living in America that Americans seem to have a high level of paranoia in regards to 'bad' people and their own Government, which seems to be one of the driving forces behind gun ownership.

Someone on another forum I lurk on said that anyone without a gun was a potential victim. I think walking around with that mantra in your head is only making you more victimised as it becomes necessary for you to constantly be carrying because you are always worried about being attacked by someone else.

I have to say even when I was standing alone at a bus stop in a less than savoury neighbourhood and some man was making lewd gestures at me, my immediate thought wasn't that I wish I had a gun so I could blow his head off.

I just think it becomes a slippery slope where everyone has to be armed because they are afraid of everyone else. It seems a lot of Americans don't see it that way, but as an Australian a lot of the news articles I read and people I see speaking on the matter seem to present it that way.

It always makes me think of the Old West when people say that if someone had a gun at the time that one of these mass shootings occur they could have disabled the shooter. I mean what happens if the shooter rather than surrender or commit suicides engages in a shoot-out with you? Or what happens if under a moment of panic you accidentally shoot and kill an innocent bystander? Also I think people tend to overestimate their skill level. It is very hard to shoot a moving target when you are under incredible stress. It's why soldiers and policemen have to undergo such rigorous training.
You make some very excellent points. I commend you for not being insulting and trying to understand. I love that you mention the Old West. My husband is a cowboy so that made me smile. We aren't what the media makes us out to be. The thing is, when you watch the media you are getting one side of the story. And no, not everyone overestimates their firing ability. When you live in America or anywhere in the country country there isn't much to do but read or practice shooting J/K. But I do agree many overestimate their abilities. I promise you I don't. After growing up around guns and being married to a cowboy I CAN shoot, even moving targets. My husband is also a first class marksman. Also, any DECENT gun store or gun smith in the U.S. will not sell a gun to someone who is afraid. I know it and have seen it and have many friends in the gun business. If you come in and say you need it for protection you are likely going to be hammered with questions. This way they see if you are nervous or twitchy and if you studder or act funny they have the right not to sell.

Also, my husband, although he has a concealed carry liscense he does not carry his gun often unless we are going hiking in the woods and we also notify the forest rangers that we will be there with a firearm. We don't carry a gun at all times and we aren't looking around shifty eyed at anyone that walks past. This is just media. I don't know one person out of the maybe... hundreds of good gun owners in my area that carry a gun or anything like that because they are afraid. I am sure there is that paranoid group. It's bound to happen in a diverse country like this but I am just talking about my own personal experiences. I dispise the media anymore and won't watch the news and read papers because of it. They can't ever say anything good and it makes my skin crawl that they make people in other countries view us all as unintelligent hillbillys that fire at anything that moves. Most of us with guns and I promise you this... will only draw a gun when in a life threatening situation and if you look at the way my husband was taught by the police and the military, he won't even arm the gun when and if he is ever confronted with a threat. We also have gun safes and a room blocked off to guests that holds any weapon we have. Thank you for making your comments like you did. This makes it easier for people to explain their point/s.

And to add, no not all Americans want to overthrow the government or fear the government.

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Old 01-17-2013, 03:31 PM   #58 
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+1 on Shirley! It's wild what the media paints us as. Yall as well! You would be shocked what your sterotypes looked like vs what I've learned from interacting with people overseas and those who've moved here. People even have stupid sterotypes for certain states! Texas, New York, Alabama, California... they all have um. And if I hear one more wise crack about my state and how stupid I am just because I live here, I'm gonna let them get up close and personal with my fist!

Yeah, I know I have a temper on my. I blame my Irish roots
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:39 PM   #59 
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I think for those up north and in other "safer countries" (quote, unquote), it is hard to understand the reason why a lot of people in the U.S. are upset about gun control and why it's such a big thing. This is such a hot topic not because we are blundering idiots or people afraid of our shadows, but rather - something is being taken away that is basically a birthright for an American. I myself do not own or carry a gun and I've lived in places MUCH, MUCH more restrictive (Saudi Arabia), but you guys have to try and understand where we are coming from.

The best analogy I can come up with that you guys would probably understand is - what if your respective governments came and said - "No one under the age of 50 is allowed to drive anymore." Sure, those over 50 would be fine but a large population would all of a sudden be affected negatively. I know we are talking about apples and oranges, but just wanted to give an example that would (hopefully) hit home.

With the founding of the U.S. our founding fathers gave its citizens certain rights that should not be taken away. Like someone else said, these rights were put in place to protect the people - plain and simple. Some say it's to protect us from our own government - while I cannot say with all certainty (because I wasn't there when the founding fathers signed everything), they were probably looking at more of protection from other countries who would see the U.S. as a new and still separated (i.e., easily conquerable) country.

Like what has been said before, we aren't asking for bazookas, and most gun advocates (NRA, etc) welcome the more stringent background checks. It is a tough topic, and one that will most likely continue to go on generations from now.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:40 PM   #60 
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I definitely understand about stereotyping. I mean we had our own walking, talking stereotype in the form of Steve Irwin. I also think in a lot of media, those who are the craziest or most controversial, get the loudest voice.

It's like how we got an article about some CEO in America who said he was going to start killing people (or something along those lines) if gun control was brought in.

As I mentioned before, I have no issue with guns as my grandfather and dad both have guns and I have been shooting before when I was younger.

I just think the possibility of needing to one day 'overthrow your Government' isn't really a valid reason for owning a gun. I do wonder though if because the Prime Minister of our country has the Governor General and then the Queen behind her she is not considered as much as an authority figure as a president is. Therefore, there is less chance of the Prime Minister of Australia going rogue and needing to be overthrown.
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