Curing Fin Rot with API Tetracycline

[InfiniteGlory]

I am currently trying to clear up fin rot in a 3g tank which ends up being closer to 2.5g with sand, heater, bio sponge tube, etc. Each packet will dose 10g and I am not sure how to dose the powder correctly. Any liquids I use are dosed at 1mL to 2mL for the entire tank.


Housing
What size is your tank? 2.5g-3g
What temperature is your tank? 78F-80F
Does your tank have a filter? Homemade sponge filter on uplift air tube
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? Yes, one airstone
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? None, just plants

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Top Fin Betta Pellets
How often do you feed your betta fish? 3-4 pellets 2x daily with one day of fasting

Maintenance
How often do you perform a water change? every 4 days
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? I remove 1g of water
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Prime. Sometimes AmGuard if the parameters don't look good about 1 hour after WC

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 20ppm
pH: 7.2-7.4
Hardness: 75
Alkalinity: 80

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Tail and dorsel fin edges are looking rough
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? No
When did you start noticing the symptoms? A few days ago 11-Jan-13
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? First dose of Stress Coat Plus and waiting on amount for API Tetracycline
Does your fish have any history of being ill? No, recently purchased and this is the first time
How old is your fish (approximately)? Not sure but he looks young and small

[veggiegirl]

Hey there,

I am afraid I haven't used the medication that you mentioned before but what I usually do if I don't know how much water is in the tank I tip it into a bucket (the buckets we get have Litre measurements on them) or maybe you could use a jug. Then if it is definately holding 2.5 gallons and one packet of med does 10 Gallons then you need to try to divide the powder into four as a quarter of the powder will treat 2.5 gallons if the whole packet does 10 gallons. So yeah basically measure a qaurter of the powder and add that. Sorry hope that makes sense and is what you wanter to know.

[callistra]

The reason your'e having fin rot problems is the ammonia in your tank. Fin rot is caused by poor water quality. Until you fix this you can't heal his fins. Amguard is no replacement for water changes/clean water.

You need to up your water changes. Your nitrates are on the upper end (20 is absolute max and lower is better) and your ammonia is showing the tank is not fully cycled and needs a change. You should do a 50% water change any time your ammonia or nitrites reach even as little as .25ppm, and you should be testing for this daily. In addition to this you need a weekly 50% change. Cycling can take up to 2 months but eventually a twice weekly 50% change (including using small vac, turkey baster or stir/dip method in gravel) may keep everything ok, but you should monitor for a while to be sure. You eventually want 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and <20ppm nitrates.

Be aware that treating in the tank is going to restart your cycle and kill off your bb supply.

For the purposes of his treatment and regrowing fins I would do 50% every other day and 100% weekly. Don't try to cycle while your fish is sick.

I suggest not using Tetracycling. It is a very harsh med and generally pretty ineffective due to overuse. For fin rot I use Kanaplex. You can also use Maracyn Plus or Furan 2 if you can't find the Kanaplex. Even Maracyn II (Minocycline) would be better, but it's also harsh.

To dillute something for a larger tank you do not want to just cut the powder. This is a crude method and isn't accurate. You want to predissolve the full packet in as many parts as gallons of water it treats - so dissolve the packet in 10 tablespoons of dechlorinated water. Then take as many parts out as in your tank.. in your case dose with 2.5-3 tablespoons of the mixture. Toss the rest and you will need to remix with new packet every time you dose.

Since you are not running a carbon filter you'll have to do 100% water change to remove meds when you're done.

[InfiniteGlory]

The ammonia reading was taken about 1 hour after a 75% water change and adding in a second container of sand. Thoroughly washed of course. I added in 2mL each of the following; Prime, Stress Coat +, AmGuard, Flourish and Stability.

When I get home tonight I will test my tap water and check the ammonia and NitRATE levels. I remember testing it this past weekend and it read somewhere in the 0.25-0.50 range for ammonia and 20 for NitRATE. So maybe I didn't give Prime enough time or I may need to up my dose of Prime.

I will do a 100% WC and pick up a 1g hospital tank until his fins get better. In the mean time I will see if I can get my larger tank parameters better in range.

I was going to try and use Tetracycline since it was mentioned in the sticky as an alternative to doing 100% daily WC's with AQ salt.

Tail rot or fin rot....If Conservative treatment is ineffective use API Tetracycline, API Fungus Cure, API Triple Sulfa, OR API Erythromycin. Also add Stress Coat to help regrowth....

If this is such a bad thing to use then someone might think about updating the sticky so that we are not using

...a very harsh med and generally pretty ineffective due to overuse

[callistra]

You don't need to up your prime. You need to do larger and more frequent water changes. This is what I'm trying to say.. Adding Prime is not a substitution for doing enough water changes to keep your water clean. Prime only works for 48 hours max at a time and it's a conditioner and temporary help during cycling. It doesn't replace water changes, nor does it clean your water. You have to increase your water changes so that ammonia, and nitrites stay at 0. In something so small, even with a filter, you just need to up your water changes. Some would say that you can't cycle something so small and you should always do a weekly 100% change and others believe that a twice weekly 50% water change will be enough once the bb establishes (up to 2 months) but in either case you need to do more and your readings are telling you this. As long as you keep seeing ammonia readings like this your fish will keep getting sick.

Well, the sticky is old and I'm not the one who wrote it so I can't change it. Also Fungus cure is a copper based med, which is what you use for parasites not fin rot and Erythromycin is a gram positive medication while fin rot is almost always gram negative, but again not my info.

[InfiniteGlory]

I am not trying to up the amount of Prime as an excuse not to do a WC. I was simply asking can I use more of it to help neutralize more of the nitRATE and ammonia coming from my tap? Also should I have given it more time to neutralize the tank? Granted I should have done a 100% WC versus a 75% change. I'm sorry for not following the proper guidelines of Betta Care.

I have read that it is very difficult to cycle a small tank and I am not trying to at this time. I am simply trying to keep my fish healthy. So please bear with me I am trying to learn.

I picked up a Tetra 1.5g tank last night to serve has a hospital tank. I am going to hold off on any of the meds and just do 100% daily WC's using about 1tbsp of AQ salt per gallon until the kanaplex arrives.

[callistra]

Oh.. you're saying the water straight from your tap has up to .5 ammonia and 20ppm nitrates? Oh my..

Prime can be used to render nitrates and ammonia less toxic for up to 48 hours but then it just becomes toxic again. If you have a really good biofilter established then the prime will help the ammonia get broken down by the filter faster, but that's it.

You might consider running an HOB filter in a larger tank with some ammonia removing media and carbon with water like that.. double dose on prime during water changes and hopefully between the two you can at least keep the ammonia at bay. Or if your fish keep getting sick you might consider another water source.. what's the ph of your current tap water?

Also, as a personal suggestion, I wouldn't drink that water. Are you in the US? That's breaking federal guidelines for water quality if you are.

[InfiniteGlory]

I haven't had a chance to double check the numbers from the tap. I just got the API master water kit Saturday evening and was checking the tank before and after the 75% WC along with what comes out of the tap. So who is to say I tested the correct water sample

I live in a small town just outside of Charlotte, NC so I am hoping that my water is safe to drink I beleive my pH is around 7.0-7.5 but I will post all my numbers from the tap tonight.

My old tank setup just had an UG filter and gravel which was later changed out to the large decorative glass beads. I used that concept to make a sponge filter with the UG filter removed. I will post pics of it later tonight. As for a HOB filter if I want to use one in my current round tank then I was thinking about the Tetra Whisper 3i. But since I bought a 1.5g Tetra tank that already included the HOB filter I may start using it until I can get a larger 3-5 gallon tank with a HOB filter. Just to give you an idea of what I currently have just google hawkeye 3 gallon 360 aquarium

Btw, will using the Tetra Bio Bags in the HOB filter remove any of the Prime, Stress Coat + or Flourish that is added to the tank? I understand that it will effect any medicines if but not sure if it will affect anything else.

[callistra]

I would double check the tap water to make sure.. Federal guidelines don't allow nitrates over 10ppm.

I don't really have any experience with that filter. I believe the bag contains carbon. My understanding is that carbon will remove some of the trace minerals in flourish. According to Seachem it's minimal and you can run carbon while dosing... I don't know. It will may eventually remove the Prime and Stress Coat as well.

[LittleBlueFishlets]

Originally Posted by InfiniteGlory

I haven't had a chance to double check the numbers from the tap. I just got the API master water kit Saturday evening....

How well did you shake the nitrate test bottles? API's instructions state that before using, you should:

"Vigorously shake the Nitrate Test Solution Bottle # 2 for at least 45 seconds. This step is extremely important to insure accuracy of test results."

I suggest shaking all the bottles before using them - especially since the kit is new. It may have been sitting on a shelf for awhile, and the contents of the bottles may have settled.