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Old 01-24-2013, 11:54 AM   #21 
LadyVictorian
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My boy Hollow keeps his tail nice and flared out, he's also a very athletic guy, for someone with a larger heaver tail he's swam under very strong filter currents without too much issue. BUT then again I also know for a fact Hollow was used for fighting or for training fighters, he has scars ALL over his face and when I got him his fins were bit to hell, not torn but bitten and Hollow isn't a tail bitter. He's also a big guy for a veiltail, his body is about 2.6-7 inches not including his tail and he's thick all over. I use to wonder if it was possible that one of his parents was a giant PK.
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:26 PM   #22 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattsBettas View Post
I like vt, but I disagree with you. A veiltail Will never sell for as much as a halfmoon because they are so common, and there are millions of vt dying on the shelves that people could rescue but instead are contributing even more to the problem.
The right VT will sell for the same, if not more. People with that mindset and ideals and telling others that they are worthless are what is keeping them down.

Ah, but see, the talk through the show breeders is that many are wanting to bring back VTs into shows (and it's being worked on), which means these little fish will once again be bred (by other than betta farms) for quality. I have seen dragonscales in VTs popping up, Thai Flags are popular, etc etc.. so much can be placed with a VT now to make them look just as good as any other fish. It's because a lot of people want pretty fish to go "look at mine look at mine!", and they think the way for it is to have the "newer" varieties.. so now the quality of those types are going down the drain too because demand is so high.

Bring in the good show breeders, bringing up the quality of VTs and making them healthier and in some cases, better looking than HMs, CTs, etc.. then they will be all the rage too once more. It's a follow the crowd type of hype with these fish.. just like with a lot of other things - mix two dog breeds and OMG I GOTTA HAVE THAT DALPOODLAPUGGY!!! Then it's old news in a year or so. VTs were what was available the most, other tails were developed and refined and then they were the must haves, etc etc.

So.. lets bring back the classic and make them worth something.. and just because they are all blue or red doesn't make them any less pretty.. you don't look at a red or blue HM and go "Ugh.. same old blue/red".. nope, in your mind because it is a HM/CT/PK, etc it's automatically beautiful.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:27 AM   #23 
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I love VeilTails personally, although all Bettas are great. Wally's tail isn't thin and isn't claimed together, his tail is always spread and he loves flaring.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:28 PM   #24 
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Though I'm new to the betta scene and -slightly- biased, I think that VT's (no matter the color) are beautiful and worth just as much as an HM or CT.

They're also the first image of a betta that popped into my mind when talking about the fish, and I would hope that people could take that popularity and use it more to the advantage to the breed itself as opposed to saying, "Oh, it's common. Not worth it." Granted, my VT Bo has an interesting coloring in my eyes, but in the end, people love (or should love) their pets for their personality.

I think it would be amazing to see a greater color variety in VT's, but at the same time, I think it would be even better if the VT's themselves weren't downplayed by the pet stores. In a perfect world, pet stores like PetSmart or places that sell betta fish would keep their betta fish in conditions that would let the betta thrive in their natural glow until finding their forever homes~ if that were to ever happen, I think every fish would be valued so much more.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:52 PM   #25 
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Myrates, I agree with you. Vts need to be properly bred. But very few people are going to buy a $35 dollar veil tail,"breeding quality" or not, when you can go to any pet store and but a very nice colored fish for three dollars. It would also be simply irresponsible to start breeding veil tails now because 1) You will have a hard time selling them, and 2) Like I said in my first comment, there are millions of vts dying on the shelves, waiting to be rescued. When you breed more vts, you are only making this problem worse. In a way it is cruel to the fish already on The shelves.

If the ibc would just make a class it would help this problem a lot.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:51 PM   #26 
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Millions of bettas of all kinds are dying on the shelves. By your logic, betta breeders should stop breeding their fish altogether because it would be cruel to the bettas on the shelves. But should good, dedicated responsible breeders stop breeding because commerical fish farms can churn out betta after betta after betta with no concern for quality control?

The majority of the people that come out of a big chain petstore with a $3 fish wouldn't have paid $35 for another fish regardless. It's not so most much that most of the ones that get a cheap VT from Walmart think "oh, the VT aren't as good as the HM" as it is that they don't care and just want a cheap, disposable pet. The target market is completely different when we're talking about the average petstore buyer and the breeders that import fancy betta from abroad. Tail type has nothing to do with it. So, it would be like comparing apples to oranges to use them to generalize why people shouldn't breed veiltails even if they want to and are willing to spend the time, energy, and money.

Last edited by Fenghuang; 01-25-2013 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:14 PM   #27 
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Quote:
Millions of bettas of all kinds are dying on the shelves. By your logic, betta breeders should stop breeding their fish altogether because it would be cruel to the bettas on the shelves. But should good, dedicated responsible breeders stop breeding because commerical fish farms can churn out betta after betta after betta with no concern for quality control?

The majority of the people that come out of a big chain petstore with a $3 fish wouldn't have paid $35 for another fish regardless. It's not so most much that most of the ones that get a cheap VT from Walmart think "oh, the VT aren't as good as the HM" as it is that they don't care and just want a cheap, disposable pet. The target market is completely different when we're talking about the average petstore buyer and the breeders that import fancy betta from abroad. Tail type has nothing to do with it. So, it would be like comparing apples to oranges to use them to generalize why people shouldn't breed veiltails even if they want to and are willing to spend the time, energy, and money.

Um no, that is not my logic at all. Half moons and all of the other tail types have a very high turnover rate. Some half moons on aquabid are gone within a day. Good luck EVER selling a veiltail on aquabid. I have seen a (nice) vt at the store, came back and dead three weeks later. So no, they do not sell much. And if they do, they are generally doomed from the start. Do you even know how many fish you can get from a spawn? Over 300. You will NOT sell three hundred veiltails. So, what do you do with the remainder? Give them to pet stores? Cull them? Either way, it is cruel to the fish. Until we can get responsible breeders and the ibc on board, it is a irresponsible act to breed vts.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:25 PM   #28 
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Okay. So how can show regulations and standards on VTs be changed if people are being advised not to breed them? Experimenting and working on improving breeds must happen in the first place to bring about a change, no? It seems like a bit of a paradox to say that responsible breeders need to be on board and also saying that breeding veiltails is irresponsible.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:53 PM   #29 
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The fact is, pestores overbreed them, and then disease among them spreads, and they get a bad reputation for being bad fish altogether. If people stop buying from petstores, and start out breeding beautiful veiltails, but sell them for cheaper then the petstore ones, they will sell faster, and a good reputation for them will grow. Simple as that
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:54 PM   #30 
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I don't know too much about betta keeping but I have seen similar issues in any group that includes people who are dedicated breeders v.s. people who are looking to breed based on how much they can sell the offspring for. I work in the veterinary profession and just because someone is breeding a "quality" breed doesn't mean they are breeding "quality" pets. (I've seen 4 separate kittens from a dedicated Siberian breeder who all had severe health issues that would have been easily prevented with proper care and better breeding.)
We see so many VTs in pet stores because that is where this started. I feel that other breeds are creeping into the pet store and just because they are fancier breeds doesn't mean you're going to get a better fish. If you go to walmart or other chains you're quite likely to see quite a few crowntails next to all the veil tails. If veil tails are to improve as a breed we need quality breeders who know how to improve the breed and bring focus back onto their best qualities.
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