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Old 01-27-2013, 10:22 PM   #1 
LadyVictorian
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Betta Genetics

One thing that is big for a mouse breeder is genetics and learning what allele carries what trait and knowing the geno and phenotypes of all your mice so you can predict your offspring before breeding.

Is there a site on betta genetics that anyone knows of where genetics are mapped out. There were some books for mouse breeders telling you what does what such as c/c creates albino's and is showed dominant and recessive traits and what combinations would do what.

Also how many breeders tend to sell fish with geno and phenotypes cataloged? As someone who enjoys genetics and breeds for the genetic aspect of it as well this interests me. Besides in researching to be a mouse breeder I have found researching into the genetics is more fun than putting two animals together. This way you can do your research and refine your lines to a point you know 98% of the time what the offspring will be. It's also nice to be able to have better idea's what a pair will produce to see if they are worth breeding. Also with phenotypes you could see if you can breed a pair with shared ressesive traits and breed it back from their line.

Anyone have books or sites with betta genetics on it throw it my way. I'm making my stacked collection next to my mouse genetic books xD
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:31 AM   #2 
indjo
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BETTAS by Jim Sonnier

As far as I know, there isn't enough scientific researches on betta genetics. Maybe there are more in the IBC's "library" but that's only available to members, which I'm not. Due to this lack of info, I mainly learned the hard way - through experience. One thing I've learned about it is that you will never get a definite outcome when crossing different traits, specially specific patterns or multi genetic coded colors. The punnet square is far from accurate, though it gives you an idea of the probabilities.
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:35 AM   #3 
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There really isn't a whole lot in the IBC's library either... still many debates on things such as layers, etc. You will never know fully what you will be getting when breeding.. have a good idea, but that's about as far as it goes. Just have such a large gene pool that can't nail it down heh.. good luck!
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:17 PM   #4 
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Thank you for the site Indigo.

And I wonder why no one has looked in depth over genetics? It's always important for breeders to be able to know genetics so they can deal with their stocks and trace bloodlines. I really wish someone would so so hard deep dirty research in on it even if there are a lot. There use to be a lot with mice too but some of it was cut out as it had negative traits that came with them like the lethal yellow. Some also argue fox in mice can carry fatal genes as well so a lot of breeders avoid fox.

I wonder what it would take to get a geneticist interested in taking a crack at it. My cousin in Germany graduated not long ago for genetics. Hmmmmm
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:57 PM   #5 
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I know, er well have talked to, a guy who knows a lot about genetics. He's thinking everything we know may be flawed because so many variations are popping up that shouldn't be. The genetics we know may be vastly off. Could be because everybody and their grandma are breeding bettas but at the same time their genetics just may be more complicated than we think.
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:58 PM   #6 
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I'm currently taking a genetics course, and can totally believe that what we know (or think we know) about betta genetics is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg. It'd be really interesting to see some research done specifically on the betta genome. Hm... I may have to check out some of the scientific journal databases that the school lets us use.
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:01 PM   #7 
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:38 PM   #8 
LadyVictorian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pittipuppylove View Post
I'm currently taking a genetics course, and can totally believe that what we know (or think we know) about betta genetics is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg. It'd be really interesting to see some research done specifically on the betta genome. Hm... I may have to check out some of the scientific journal databases that the school lets us use.
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You totally should. Maybe you can pioneer this movement to understanding the deep tissue of the bette's genetics.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:03 AM   #9 
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People study a lot of genetics, but it is impossible to tell what lineage a fish has based only on its appearance, really. You can be certain of a few things, make guesses on some others, but the fry will always be unpredictable to a point. This is why people say you should breed show-quality bettas.. Because the parents of show-quality fish (owned by a breeder) are likely to also be of show quality, hence giving you a much higher chance of getting good genes in your offspring. Pet store bettas are mostly a genetic surprise.
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:14 PM   #10 
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Originally Posted by LadyVictorian View Post
You totally should. Maybe you can pioneer this movement to understanding the deep tissue of the bette's genetics.
lol I'm no geneticist, and honestly have no concrete plans to pursue genetics after I finish this class (gotta love gen eds). But I did a few searches on a basic academic search engine, and it looks like there's been at least some research done with B. splendens, but very little in terms of color and form. There's some that talk about feeding fry various foods and how it affects development, a decent amount about mate selection and mating behavior, and a really interesting article on how inducing triploidy may decrease overall aggression - however, I'll also add that I haven't read most of these articles much past the abstract, so there may be more in there.

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Originally Posted by inareverie85 View Post
People study a lot of genetics, but it is impossible to tell what lineage a fish has based only on its appearance, really. You can be certain of a few things, make guesses on some others, but the fry will always be unpredictable to a point. This is why people say you should breed show-quality bettas.. Because the parents of show-quality fish (owned by a breeder) are likely to also be of show quality, hence giving you a much higher chance of getting good genes in your offspring. Pet store bettas are mostly a genetic surprise.
Agreed - there's only so much you can gain from looking at a phenotype. And it definately stands to reason that a line of show quality fish (or any other show animal, for that matter) will have a far higher likelyhood of producing offspring with the desired traits. But it seems like it'd be rather helpful to know more about the genes that produce said traits so that certain issues may be avoided or explained. lol It could just be the science student in me, though - always wanting to know how and why things happen the way they do.
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