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Old 01-31-2013, 10:37 PM   #1 
krysiana
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Growing Lump - what to use?

Hi all,

I know there are similar stories out there (have been reading and reading), but I could use advice to settle on a course of treatment for my betta female, Sophie.

Sunday night I noticed a lump on her side. I thought maybe at first she might have been constipated, so I gave her a cooked, mashed pea and fasted her, and it looks like she can go to the bathroom ok, but the lump keeps growing. I added daily epsom salt baths, but no improvement I can see.

My house got really cold the other day and the tanks heater had a challenge. The water went to 76 degrees (normally it is around 78-80). The only other recent change is that the Jave ferns are growing really well - could they have any negative impact on the water quality?


You can see photos here: http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb261/hfdaz/lump2.jpg
http://s206.beta.photobucket.com/use...94839839082566

I am feeding her Hikari Bio Gold pellets (since they have garlic), but I usually rotate in occasional frozen shrimp or blood worms for variety. Other than the lump she is peppy, hungry, and I see nothing on her exterior at all. All my medicines say they are for external conditions - what do I do?

Here's what I have for medicine options in my house:
De-Los (which I was told is super strong against parasites)
Melafix (I hear that's kind of best for outside issues?)
Methelyne Blue
Rid fungus herbal formula
Maracide
Aquarium & Epsom salt.

I wanted to make sure I had a medicine cabinet in case my fish get sick.

I have one baby tank for use inside the main tank, and a 1 gallon hospital tank, currently occupied with a danio that took a little nip from another danio (healing nicely). The main tank also has dwarf frogs and snails.

Other stats:
15 gallon tank (divided, with filters & heater)
Water quality according to the easy strip - no nitrates (or near 0), 0 nitrite, 25 hardness, 0 chlorine, 80/moderate alkalinity, neutral pH. No ammonia with ammonia test.

If you were in my place, what actions would you take? I'm baffled, and wish I had something to give her for her insides! Hope someone can help quick!
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:07 PM   #2 
callistra
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Hikari do not contain garlic. Not sure who told you that.

Exactly how many a day do you feed?

How much epsom per gallon are you using?

Can you please share more info: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=49233
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:46 PM   #3 
krysiana
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The Hikari Tropical Betta Bio-Gold Food says it contains garlic in the ingredients list, albeit not very high on the list (after DL-methionine).

Remaining info bits I forgot to answer:
What temperature is your tank? Now 80 (did have that one drop to 76)
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No (should it?)


Food
How often do you feed your betta fish? Once a day in the mornings. The challenge is that the danios are little piranas and get to the food much faster.

Maintenance

How often do you perform a water change? weekly (did one extra this week just in case something was wrong, which was a smaller change)

What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 25-40%, Depending on how the water looks to me.

What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Tap water conditioner; every other week a beneficial bacteria product as directed.


Symptoms and Treatment
Does your fish have any history of being ill? Early when I got her, I overfed her & she got constipated. I feed her less now...that's it!

How old is your fish (approximately)? A year and a half approximately.
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:38 PM   #4 
krysiana
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Hi... since I didn't hear from anyone, I figured doing medicinal something would be better than nothing at all. I have been trying twice daily baths in Methelyne Blue, with 1/4 tsp epsom salt in a gallon of water (some from the tank, some which is been dechlorinated).

How many days does it usually take to see improvement? Should I change over to the stronger medicine in a hospital tank? I do not have local shops with special antibiotics, but do want to stop this swelling in its tracks. I hope someone can help!
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Old 02-02-2013, 06:59 PM   #5 
callistra
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You seriously have your betta in a tank with piranhas?
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:25 PM   #6 
LittleBlueFishlets
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Quote:
Originally Posted by callistra View Post
You seriously have your betta in a tank with piranhas?
LOL! I think you read it too quickly. That line says:

Quote:
The challenge is that the danios are little piranas and get to the food much faster.
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:37 PM   #7 
LittleBlueFishlets
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krysiana View Post
... so I gave her a cooked, mashed pea
... the Jave ferns are growing really well - could they have any negative impact on the water quality?
The general opinion is to not feed peas. (People have said they can cause blockage, since they're not part of a Betta's normal diet.)

The healthy Java ferns shouldn't cause any problems at all. In fact, they should help the water quality. (If they were dying or rotting, that would obviously be an issue, though.)

Quote:
... All my medicines say they are for external conditions - what do I do?
Here's what I have for medicine options in my house:
De-Los (which I was told is super strong against parasites)
Melafix (I hear that's kind of best for outside issues?)
Methelyne Blue
Rid fungus herbal formula
Maracide
Aquarium & Epsom salt.
Don't use anything with "-fix" at the end. They contain oils which make it difficult for Bettas to breathe.

The general rule is:
- Epsom salt for INTERNAL issues
- Aquarium salt for EXTERNAL issues

Quote:
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No (should it?)
Bettas don't require it, as they breathe air from the surface. In fact, if the flow is too strong, it just pushes them around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krysiana View Post
Hi... since I didn't hear from anyone, I figured doing medicinal something would be better than nothing at all. I have been trying twice daily baths in Methelyne Blue, with 1/4 tsp epsom salt in a gallon of water (some from the tank, some which is been dechlorinated).
You can increase the Epsom salt. I've read recommendations of anywhere from 1-3 teaspoons of Epsom salt per gallon.

(I've never used more than 1.5 teaspoons per gallon, personally. But my guys were suffering from constipation and/or bloat. So I didn't need to use the higher dosages.)

Be sure to acclimate slowly, so you don't shock him.
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:49 AM   #8 
krysiana
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Thank you for the info! I will continue her twice daily baths in Methelyne Blue, and I will gradually increase the epsom salt by 1/4 tsp each bath until I get to 1.5 tsp and see if I need to keep going. I'll just keep feeding her a light amount of Betta Bio-Gold, no peas.

On acclimating: a 30 minute bath is a good amount (I watch her for stress)? The tank/bath waters are the same temp and all - when I put her back in the tank, what is the gentlest way (don't know if going from salt to no salt might shock her system)? On her way into the medicine, it is easy to spoon in the new water into her cup slowly and eventually putting the cup fully in - I can't do that on the way back because I don't want the methelyne blue to kill off the tank bacteria/plants/snails (don't know if it kills snails, but it sure seems like a lot does).

Update: So far, there hasn't been much change in the shape or size if the lump (maybe a little more rounded). I hope I've at least halted its progress. Sophie seems to look forward to the baths, swimming right into the little cup to transport her into the bath. Looks like she's even trying to make bubbles while in the bath!

The plants are very green and growing well - I trim anything that's too long or looks like it is fading, so it doesn't rot in there. The plants are trying to stretch thier roots from the wood into the gravel & toward the filtration... but that's another story!

And the Danios are genuine, perpetually hungry danios and not pirhanas... gosh that gave me a chuckle! A much needed one!
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Old 02-03-2013, 11:13 PM   #9 
krysiana
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Oh boy... she's starting to go into a bit of shock - I increased the salt to 1/2 tsp, she was ok in the bath, peppy and making a bubble or two, but when I returned her to the main tank, she started to staying close to the top near the filter a lot (all the other tankmates are fine, water went through its weekly maintenance today, everything looking good). The last time I saw that, I had a betta go on me in a few days. I'm going to keep going, and hope for the best.

Last questions (I think!):
1) How many days of treatment with Methylene Blue/Epsom Salt would it take before I should expect improvement?

2) Is there anything I can get for her internally? To me this seems more like internal parasites (she was always hungry, but this morning she was ravenous), and everything I have says it is for external conditions.

Thanks all!
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:10 PM   #10 
krysiana
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So, after a few more days of treatment with Methelyne Blue/Epsom Salt, I think the stress of going back and forth was really starting to get to her. Her dark gray face was starting to look a bit mottled, she was getting weak and the fins were starting to look a bit ragged.

I was given Tetra's Parasite Guard in the hopes that it might help. I put her into a 1 gallon hospital tank Tuesday (2/5), having sliced the medicine into portions (hard!) and predissolved it into dechlorinated water. Her facial color has returned, she swims with pep (albeit it looks like it is taking work), but the lump just does not want to shrink.

I'm on treatment #2 of 3 with Parasite guard. Meanwhile I believe I have successfully identified the kind of parasite with a great book, called Manual of Fish Health by Dr. Chris Andrews. It looks like nodular disease. If anyone has had experience with this condition, please share your suggestions!
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