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Old 01-27-2013, 11:17 AM   #1 
Otterfun
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Hole in the head

Hi I read the sticky for hole in the head. My Fred had a red lesion and it turned white today on his head.

Question:
Do I need to get a new QT tank to treat him or do I use the existing 5g tank to treat?

Will it mess up my cycling? I am in day 13 if my cycling? Do I restart my cycling after I am done treating Fred from square 1?

From the sticky Diesease (part 2)
•Treatment: HITH can be treated conservatively with Aquarium salt. Add 1 tsp/gal Aquarium Salt 3 times, 12 hours apart so that you end up with 3 times the normal concentration and remember not to continue this for more than 10 days. Keep the temperature between 80-82*F and perform daily 100% water changes. If conservative treatment fails then use API General Cure OR Jungle’s Parasite Clear fizz tablets.
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:21 AM   #2 
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Bettas can't get HITH actually.

So he actually has body rot most likely.. This is due to water quality issues so more info is needed. My guess is you are not keeping up on the extra changes needed during cycling. You should be testing daily for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate and doing a 50% change any time you see as little as .25ppm ammonia or nitrite. In addition to this a weekly 50% change with siphon is needed.

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=49233 Also please share photos.

He needs to be removed from teh cycling tank, QT and treated.

In the meantime look for Kanaplex, Maracyn Plus or Furan 2.

Last edited by callistra; 01-27-2013 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:01 PM   #3 
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No, I have been changing 20% to 60% WC everyday due to the 0.25 ammonia and nitrites spikes. I also vacuum twice a week, but nothing much comes through except loose rhizomes, some dead leaves and maybe the terra cotta color #2 every so often. Ok, so I will need a QT tank...
Do I need to treat the main tank or just do 100% WC and leave the plants in there with the regular tap water, or do I need to also heat the empty main tank with AQ salt since I notice plants do not do well with AQ salted water?

Also, I need to bring the shrimp over with Fred, right?

One more thought: could Fred have gotten the lesion from picking on and eating the Amano shrimp? He is actually very active and hungry and not bloated.

Last edited by Otterfun; 01-27-2013 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:08 PM   #4 
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You've done a good job of it then. Some fish are more hardy than others but it sounds like your boy couldn't handle the cycle process. I would finish it with only your shrimp.

I wouldn't treat the main tank. Just do a big water change and then continue cycling with just the shrimp. Shrimp also can't take salt.

I've never heard of shrimp attacking bettas, but I know some bettas will eat the shrimp. Did you QT the shrimp to make sure they weren't sick before introducing them to the tank? It's also possible he injured himself.. do you have anything rough in your tank? Everything checked with pantyhose for snagging? Any small holes/caves he might be a little too big for?

Can you share a photo please? I wouldn't treat body rot with salt. I would get antibiotics.
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:56 PM   #5 
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What kind of testing products are you using and what is the base line test results on the source water-with and without the normal additives you use. What is the source water-well water, city supplied tap water and do you have a water softening unit hooked up to the house, if so, can you bypass it for the tanks, if its the type that uses salt.
What kind of additives are you using-are you using any ferts.
What kind and how many live plants and how are they doing.

If you have a lot of active growing live plants-it can take a long time if ever to see the nitrate reading we look for that tells us cycling stage/completeness.

You might be doing too many water changes and upset the balance. IMO, the wound is most likely due to something else and not related to cycling-especially since the more delicate shrimp are fine.

Almost always, you will need to QT for treatments, however, there are some exceptions.

A pic would really help, other than the wound, how is his behavior and appetite.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:44 AM   #6 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by callistra View Post
Did you QT the shrimp to make sure they weren't sick before introducing them to the tank? It's also possible he injured himself.. do you have anything rough in your tank? Everything checked with pantyhose for snagging? Any small holes/caves he might be a little too big for?

Can you share a photo please? I wouldn't treat body rot with salt. I would get antibiotics.
I do not believe I have anything sharp since I checked it with my hands and made sure the thumb can go through all the holes easily. I will check with panty hose on the moss covered driftwood that the shrimp was hiding in and on the bigger stone stacked decor.

This is a picture of my current that Fred was in. I put the QT tank next to the big tank and he kept staring through the glass and bumping the QT tanks' glass. Seems like he misses the nicer tank set up.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:04 AM   #7 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldfishlady View Post
What kind of testing products are you using and what is the base line test results on the source water-with and without the normal additives you use. What is the source water-well water, city supplied tap water and do you have a water softening unit hooked up to the house, if so, can you bypass it for the tanks, if its the type that uses salt.
What kind of additives are you using-are you using any ferts.
What kind and how many live plants and how are they doing.
I am using API Freshwater test kit.

Baseline on 1/11/13 for 5.5g tank, day 1 of Cycling :
7.0 pH, 0 for Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate, first time tank test, no animals, no plants, no gravel/decor.

Plain tap water, not sure on the hardness of the water.

Additives: Prime and Stress Coat+ at 50/50 ratio for 5.5g tanks w/5g water capacity, 5cc of Aqueon Liquid Fertilizer.

Live Plants: Wisteria, tall Hygrophilia, some crypts, marimo moss ball, marimo moss covered driftwood.

Last test today (day 17 of Cycling) and followed with 50% WC after moving Fred to QT tank, leaving behind Yo the Golden Apple Snail, and the Amano (Japanese Algae Eating) Shrimp:
0-0.25Ammonia
0.25 Nitrite
20-30 Nitrate

Shrimp is fine busy eating, and alive. Yo the snail is not climbing out of the water to escape, so the water quality should be fine, I hope....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldfishlady View Post

A pic would really help, other than the wound, how is his behavior and appetite.
I am trying to get a good picture, have not been successful.
Fred is active and normal, made bubble nest, hungry, and not bloated. Color is normal and intense red. Slight curl at one or two fin edges (caudal, dorsal, and anal), some fin regrowth (white tips) at the pectoral fins.

Betta anatomy courtesy of NippyFish.net


Yesterday was a red lesion, today is a white lesion about the size his pupil. It is located on the "nose" area close to the right eye.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:41 AM   #8 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otterfun View Post
I am using API Freshwater test kit.

Baseline on 1/11/13 for 5.5g tank, day 1 of Cycling :
7.0 pH, 0 for Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate, first time tank test, no animals, no plants, no gravel/decor.

Plain tap water, not sure on the hardness of the water.

Additives: Prime and Stress Coat+ at 50/50 ratio for 5.5g tanks w/5g water capacity, 5cc of Aqueon Liquid Fertilizer.

Live Plants: Wisteria, tall Hygrophilia, some crypts, marimo moss ball, marimo moss covered driftwood.

Last test today (day 17 of Cycling) and followed with 50% WC after moving Fred to QT tank, leaving behind Yo the Golden Apple Snail, and the Amano (Japanese Algae Eating) Shrimp:
0-0.25Ammonia
0.25 Nitrite
20-30 Nitrate

Shrimp is fine busy eating, and alive. Yo the snail is not climbing out of the water to escape, so the water quality should be fine, I hope....
My Water Log, hope you can see it:
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:16 AM   #9 
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What is the base line on your source water.

In what relation did you do the water test to adding the ferts....Both the additives and plant ferts can cause skewed results-

Have you started any type of treatment in the QT
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:51 AM   #10 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldfishlady View Post
What is the base line on your source water.

In what relation did you do the water test to adding the ferts....Both the additives and plant ferts can cause skewed results-

Have you started any type of treatment in the QT
I am not sure what you mean by baseline.
My tap water with Prime initially tested at 0 for everything @ 7.0 ph.

Did you mean to do a test with everything (fert, Stress Coat +, Prime, etc)?

Currently treating Fred in QT w/10cc per gal of AQ salt dice the white area got a little bigger within 12 hrs. I may reduce AQ salt to 5cc/g if it show improvement. Any thoughts on this treatment plan?

Oh, do I need heater for the main tank? I moved it with Fred to the QT tank.
main tank is around 72f w/ shrimp and snail for now.
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