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Old 02-08-2013, 09:20 PM   #11 
callistra
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I suggest increasing water changes. The nitrates are too high right now. 50% weekly is needed and if you get behind you should do two 50%s to catch up.

I agree too hard to diagnose without photos, but by swollen do you mean raised scales? And swollen whole body or belly? What color are their poop?
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:53 PM   #12 
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I haven't see any poop. I don't know if that's because they aren't pooing, or just because I'm not seeing it.

No raised scales yet. Odysseus, thankfully, isn't swollen at all, but Artemis just seems bloated all the way down, not just in the belly (if it was just belly, I'd have thought maybe that she was eggy, but this is the whole length of the body uniformally).

I'm not sure my nitrate reading is correct - I've had a lot of troubles with my test kit. It was done right before a water change, so it is no longer that high.
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:00 PM   #13 
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I would start with some extra water changes.

What test kit are you using?

I've never seen whole body swelling without scales sticking out.. if you look from the top down you don't see anything at all? I think the epsoms and IAL were a good start. How long has she been in this?

Since you made the comment that all your bettas get this I would not put your bettas back in the same tanks until you bleach them out. It sounds like an internal bacterial infection that is very contagious. No other fish but bettas get sick?

What's your water source?

Last edited by callistra; 02-08-2013 at 11:05 PM.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:49 AM   #14 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by callistra View Post
I would start with some extra water changes.
In their hospital tank they are getting a change every second day. It's stressing Odysseus out massively, though.

What test kit are you using?
API Master Kit. All the others test fine, but I've always had funky readings from the nitrate (tested 0 in an overstocked tank that hadn't been cleaned in six weeks (not mine)).

I've never seen whole body swelling without scales sticking out.. if you look from the top down you don't see anything at all?
Yep. I know it's wierd - I've never met anyone who could tell me what it was. Usually they start to pinecone right before they die. If they pinecone I can measure their lives in hours.

I think the epsoms and IAL were a good start. How long has she been in this?
Erm...I can't give you precise days. My memory is shocking. :( I'm going to estime four days for Odysseus and six for Artemis?

Since you made the comment that all your bettas get this I would not put your bettas back in the same tanks until you bleach them out. It sounds like an internal bacterial infection that is very contagious. No other fish but bettas get sick?
Odysseus was the first fish to ever go in his tank, but he still managed to contract it. Unfortunately I can't bleach either of the tanks as they both have other inhabitants. Would you suggest just giving up on bettas for a while until I can remove all my plants and livestock and do a thorough scrubbing?
Yep. Just the bettas. I've had a cory die, but that was (to the best of my knowledge) unrelated.

What's your water source?
It's plain old tap water that I'm guessing just gets bumped to us from the local water station.
The IAL and salt seem to have made a difference in extending their lives - I've never had a betta get sick with this and live as long as they both have. Odysseus has taken to freaking out massively at movements outside the tank (he doesn't care if Artemis swims up to the breeder box, but if I take the lid off to check on them/drop in a pellet, he goes nuts and hides under his IAL). I've tried the only medication I've managed to find, which claims to treat internal issues. I'll find out the name for you and get back to you.
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Old 03-01-2013, 05:28 PM   #15 
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An update:

Both fish are still alive! Odysseus is eating greedily once more and is far more responsive. His fin rot is beginning to clear (no more black edges) but he is still very lethargic. I'm not ready to release him back into his 5 gal yet, though I am thinking of trying to divide the 3 gal so he can have some more room.

Artemis is still a bit swollen and very lethargic. She has returned to being pale and stress-stripey, but she hasn't pineconed and she is eating a little.

I've finished a full course of the internal parasite medication. They still have lots of IAL, but no more epsom salt. Any advice on where I should go from here?
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:15 PM   #16 
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I said it sounded bacterial..

What did you use before?

What color is the poop now?

What is their water change routine now?

What is the temp of their tanks?

I would not discontinue ES while bloating is present
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Old 03-02-2013, 05:08 PM   #17 
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Quote:
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I said it sounded bacterial..

What did you use before?
The medication? I'm not sure what the name of it is because the front half of the label has been ripped off. The instructions are still there but not the name.

What color is the poop now?
I still can't see any poop. I'm sure they are pooing, I just can't see it.

What is their water change routine now?
25% every third day. My water is super soft with a low pH, so any ammonia in the water gets converted to ammonium anyway, so I've a little leeway.

What is the temp of their tanks?
80. They are still both in the same tank.

I would not discontinue ES while bloating is present
I thought you were only supposed to treat with ES for ten days?

I've posted the best photo I have of them - all the others of Artemis are blurry. Unfortunately, this doesn't show her swelling well, as it is most visible from the top, or her change in colour. When healthy, she is bright blue-green. At the moment, she is a very dull blue with a white belly, when she isn't stressing and stripy. In this picture, she's showing off a little for Odysseus (who is not interested), which is the first time I've seen her do it.
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Old 03-02-2013, 05:12 PM   #18 
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The one has very bad fin melt. Looks like water quality issues.. So can you answer the questions above and also post their ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels now?

They're not together are they? They look to be in the same tank with no divider..
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Old 03-02-2013, 05:43 PM   #19 
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She's in a 3 gal, he's in the breeder box inside it. Don't worry, they can't get at each other.

Their ammonia and nitrites are 0, all the time - the tank has no filter and is uncycled, though there is probably some good bacteria lurking in all the IAL. I answered all the questions in my previoust post in the quote box. :) Water quality has never been an issue - I've tested the water in all my tanks. I suspect the fin rot attacked simply because his immune system was so compromised.
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Old 03-02-2013, 06:01 PM   #20 
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Well on your last page your nitrates were too high and I suggested increasing water changes because they shouldn't have been that high. The one change every 2 weeks probably caused it and I suggested more changes to catch up water quality, so I was wondering if you had tried that.

However, you have since moved them to a new tank with no filter.. so I need more info again.. 3g with no filter should be getting 50% water change every other day and 100% by week's end while your fish are healing.

Aquarium salt can only be used up to 10 days. ES can be used pretty much indefinitely.

The female doesn't look bad. The male betta's condition is a concern. He also looks really skinny.. what color are their poop? I would at least for the male betta get an actual antibiotic. Either Kanaplex, Triple Sulfa or Maracyn and Maracyn 1 in combo. Treat for at least one full week along with the increased water changes.

Have you ever had problems with any other fish in the tanks or only the bettas?

Last edited by callistra; 03-02-2013 at 06:04 PM.
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