fish with internal and external bacteria/parasite

[monnet]

My fish is sick for 2 and a half weeks.

First he had bloating. I thought it was the swim bladder disease.So I didn't feed him for 3 days. After 3 days I fed him with peas for 2 days. At the end of 5 days in total there was no improvement. So I started feeding him his pellet again (not to starve him), but with fewer amounts (1 in the morning 1 at night).

The bloating didn't go away. So I thought it is internal parasite. I bought API General Cure (treats parasitic fish disease). I have been using it for 4 days. I change the water every 48 hours as it is suggested on the package. Still no improvement and I think the bloating increased.

Today, I started the Epsom salt treatment. I put him in a smaller tank with Epsom salt for 15 minutes. Then put him back to his tank with API general cure. I am planning to continue doing it.

In the last 2 days the grayish/white areas increased around his mouth and stomach. I think it is columnaris. But he still has a good apatite. I am concerned b/c my fish is getting weaker. I want to know what is wrong, and how to cure him. I attached 3 pictures.


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Housing
What size is your tank? 5 g
What temperature is your tank? 78-80
Does your tank have a filter? yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? no
Is your tank heated? yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? none

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? wardley betta food (pellet)
How often do you feed your betta fish? 6 days a week. since he is sick I feed with 2 times a day 4 days a week.2 days of no food.

Maintenance
How often do you perform a water change? every 48 hours
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 25%-40%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? only conditioner and I've been adding API general cure for the last 2-3 days.

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters? none

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? bloating and gray/white areas around his stomach and mouth.
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? it's hard for him to swim to the top.
When did you start noticing the symptoms? 2 and a half week ago
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how?
Does your fish have any history of being ill? no
How old is your fish (approximately)? i have no idea.

[Oldfishlady]

Welcome to the forum and sorry your Betta isn't well.

How long have you had him-can you tell if his scale are sticking up

What I would recommend at this point-QT in something small that can be floated(attached so it doesn't sink) in the heated tank to maintain temp in the 77-78F range. Cover the top with plastic veggie wrap to retain heat/humidity for the labyrinth organ.
If he came in one of those small temporary cups-this works great for a QT container.

Premix some treatment water in a 1gal jug of dechlorinated water-Add Epsom salt (Not aquarium salt) 2tsp/gal and a tannin source-either IAL (1lrg crushed/gal) or naturally dried and fallen from the tree-Oak leaf (20 crushed/gal) Let this steep for 30min...Shake well before use.

Using this premixed treatment water-make 25% water change every 15min for 1 hour today. This will get the treatment started and get him properly acclimated to the new chemistry.
He needs to stay in the covered QT floating in the heated tank-in this treatment water for the duration of the treatment period.

Tomorrow-using the premixed treatment water-start the 50% daily water changes for the next 10-14 days
If you used a tannin source-the premixed jug of treatment water should look darker each day and this is what you want.

Nutrition-good quality varied diet fed in small frequent meals-If you have access to live mosquito larva offer several rinsed a couple of times a day to boost protein intake to support the immune response.

Good luck and keep us posted...

[monnet]

I have him for 6 months and the scales are not sticking up, so I am hoping it will not turn into dropsy. I couldn't find IAL but I'll order it online. Thank you very much for all the advice!

[callistra]

I can't see any of your photos. It says I don't have permission to view them.

Columnaris can move extremely quickly.. it will be fuzzy.. fuzzy is usually columnaris. If thats what it is I would not wait for mail order for natural treatment. I would use actual meds you can get and quick. i prefer Kanaplex. Triple Sulfa or Maracyn 1 and 2 in combo might work. Treat for a minimum of 1 week and be prepared to go a second.

I would discontinue GC and do change to remove it. The epsom salt can go in his tank.. removing back and forth for baths can shock and even kill him if you don't do it right, plus it's pointless. 1 TSP per gallon predissolved right into the tank. Only add back salt with a water change.

Also, how much and what are you feeding? What color is his poop?

All these meds are toasting your cycle and making your filter pointless.. so you will need weekly 100% changes while he heals. Once he is well, read this:http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=47838

Also make sure to remove any carbon in the filter or it will just take the meds out of the water.

[monnet]

I attached the pictures again.

I ordered the medicines you listed and they will arrive tomorrow morning, so I can start the treatment tomorrow. He is getting worse as he is not eating now but I'll do all I can to save him.

Thanks again for the advices.

[monnet]

I feed him with Aqueon betta food pallets. 1 in the morning 1 at night since he is sick. I wasn't able to see the poop for a while but it was stringy and white 1 week ago. a few days ago it was back to normal.

just to make sure, should I stop the filter when I medicate him and do weekly 100% changes instead?

[ANHEL123]

It could be internal parasites if poo was white and stringy and epsom salt will help to purge them out but will not treat it. If it indeed internal parasites you also need to use medication. Epsom salt is very mild on fish and you can use 2tsp/gall . And as far as i know you need to do daily water changes. You can quarintine him in the smaller tank if you can maintain the temp there. Also it good if fish still eating with parasites because he will pass parasites out with poop. Just wait update from other people who gave you advice .....I don't see any white fuzzy patches on him. Like callistra wrote with columnaris he would have white cottony like, fuzzy patches. It sound like he can have internal parasites though, or internal infection...

[callistra]

You don't have to stop the filter, but you need to remove any carbon cartridges in the filter. Hopefully there is more than one cartridge in your filter? If that's all you have there are more issues..

I would medicate him + epsoms + weekly 100% changes. maybe add one 50% midweek.

You need to fast him 3 days - a week until he poops a lot and that bloat goes away.. I'm guessing it's internal bacterial.

I highly doubt it's parasites based on what you've given us. Fish that have internal parasites have had to have had an opportunity for them to have been introduced.. like feeding live or frozen foods, introducing new live plants, new fish etc.