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Old 02-17-2013, 12:22 AM   #1 
NeptunesMom
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Neptune is laying on the bottom of the tank. At first he was laying on his side and swimming (like rubbing), then I cleaned his tank, and now he is laying on the bottom just sitting there. He has a redish pink spot on his side. I can not get it to show up on camera, it is not very dark but it spreads out over his whole side, he is cellophane. I made a mistake, and went two weeks between water changes. The water was fairly bad by the time I realized it was bad. It did not smell and was not murky, until I started cleaning it. Then it smelled of rotten eggs. The tank has two snails that were recently added without quarantine. They came from PetSmart, and I work there, so I trusted that they were healthy.

He seemed fine yesterday, and he seemed fine for a while again after the water change, and when I moved him to change the water. I did a 90% change. He did eat after I moved him back into the tank following the water change.

Any recommendations? I will fill out the "please fill this information out" now.

Housing
What size is your tank? 10 g
What temperature is your tank? 80
Does your tank have a filter? No
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? Two Mystery Snails

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Top Fin
How often do you feed your betta fish? Once at night

Maintenance
How often do you perform a water change? Normally, once every week
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 20-30%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Top Fin Conditioner

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters? No

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity:

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Red spot
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Laying on bottom of tank
When did you start noticing the symptoms?Tonight
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? No
Does your fish have any history of being ill? He is a fin biter
How old is your fish (approximately)? 1 year

Last edited by NeptunesMom; 02-17-2013 at 12:27 AM.
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:52 AM   #2 
AyalaCookiejar
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It sounds like ammonia poisoning. I hate to say it, but you are not doing enough water changes. Since the tank isn't filtered, you need 2 per week, one 25-50% and one 80-100%, unless you have live plants. Since he's a tail biter, what do his fins look like? I would assume that he may have some other fin issues because of the lack of water changes combined with the tail biting.

I don't think treatment is necessary at this point. Hopefully he will do better after that last water change but I would do a series of large water changes and watch him closely for any other symptoms.

Edit: snails also have a large bio-load so its probably better to do bigger water changes or possibly add another small water change in each week. Water changes shouldn't take long, you just have to remember to set aside an extra ten minutes twice a week. Make it two specific days out of the week at a specific time if it helps you.

Last edited by AyalaCookiejar; 02-17-2013 at 03:55 AM.
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:02 AM   #3 
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I always thought a 10 g was once a week. I checked my water chemistry each week before I change, and it is always perfect (based on the color matched for the API 5 in 1 test, and API ammonia test). This week I changed the water quickly, and I had already changed the water by the time I posted so I didn't test it before posting. There are live plants in there. I have a moss ball, 2 Anubis, and 2 Amazon Sword. I do not have great luck with live plants. They always seem to be dying on me (esp. the sword), but these ones have lasted the longest. I take them out, when they start to decay.

He seems to be acting better today. Should I do another small change today? Or should I wait a couple of days?

I should add. I did not intend for him to have two snails. He had one golden mystery snail named Charlie, and I bought Eponine a black mystery named Astrild a few weeks ago. Eponine attacked Astrild to the point it wouldn't come out of it's shell. I put Astrild in with Charlie (who was not doing well already at that point, and Charlie eventually died) and Neptune because Neptune is not aggressive. Then Charlie passed away, and Neptune seemed bothered (he really did seem to like to bump at Charlie on the glass or stare at him as he moved around). He did not seem to care about Astrild, and didn't even notice it there. So, I went and got him Cupid who is a golden mystery snail too. But, again, he doesn't seem to notice or car about Cupid. Maybe, it wasn't Charlie's color, but the fact Charlie was fairly large by the time it died that entertained Neptune. But, now I have two snails who I have committed to, two tanks, and one grumpy little girl fish who has to have her tank to herself. I even moved things around when I put Astrild in, and she was still aggressive.

Oh, and on the tail biting. His tail is ragged looking, but it is not short or anything. It is not at all bad tail biting. Just a few spots in the back he's chopped into. I thought it was the aquarium's fake plants a long time ago, but then when I switched to real plants he still has the ragged tail. There is nothing else in there for him to catch on. His cave is plastic and smooth.

Last edited by NeptunesMom; 02-17-2013 at 09:12 AM.
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:37 PM   #4 
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Good that he seems better today...I would go ahead and make some small volume water only changes for a couple of days. Then get back on your regular schedule.

IMO/E-With a 10gal unfiltered with a few live plants-stocked with a single Betta and a couple of snails. Water changes of 1-50% weekly with light vacuum in all places you can reach without moving anything or disruption of plant roots-should maintain water quality-provided that you don't overfeed or leave too much uneaten food, however, a tiny bit of uneaten food shouldn't cause too much of a problem-due to the snail that will eat it and the plants.

If the plants are not doing well-they can become part of the water quality problem. Most plant problems are due to the wrong color temp of lights-if its not related to non-aquatic plants, improper planting or incorrect photoperiod to name a few common reason for plant problems.

What kind of lights do you have, age of bulbs, kelvin, watts and photoperiod. What type of substrate and how deep. Are you adding any plant ferts. How are the plants planted and after the water change-did the rotten egg smell go away.

Is he still flashing or rubbing on objects in the tank, if so, what part of the body seems to hit first. How long has the red spot been on him and have you seen any changes in the spot. Can you post a pic of him and the tank-I know you can't get one of the red spot-but a pic of him would help.
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:52 PM   #5 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldfishlady View Post
Good that he seems better today...I would go ahead and make some small volume water only changes for a couple of days. Then get back on your regular schedule.

IMO/E-With a 10gal unfiltered with a few live plants-stocked with a single Betta and a couple of snails. Water changes of 1-50% weekly with light vacuum in all places you can reach without moving anything or disruption of plant roots-should maintain water quality-provided that you don't overfeed or leave too much uneaten food, however, a tiny bit of uneaten food shouldn't cause too much of a problem-due to the snail that will eat it and the plants.

If the plants are not doing well-they can become part of the water quality problem. Most plant problems are due to the wrong color temp of lights-if its not related to non-aquatic plants, improper planting or incorrect photoperiod to name a few common reason for plant problems.

What kind of lights do you have, age of bulbs, kelvin, watts and photoperiod. What type of substrate and how deep. Are you adding any plant ferts. How are the plants planted and after the water change-did the rotten egg smell go away.

Is he still flashing or rubbing on objects in the tank, if so, what part of the body seems to hit first. How long has the red spot been on him and have you seen any changes in the spot. Can you post a pic of him and the tank-I know you can't get one of the red spot-but a pic of him would help.
For the plants I have been using natural light from the window. I read somewhere that it would work better than artificial lights. But, I have my doubts on that. The roots are not buried (I was told not to), they are tied to rocks with fishing line, or to the decor. I do not use fertilizer, because I did not know how that would affect Neptune.

The rotten egg smell did go away as soon as I changed the water. His tank smells normal again. I am not sure if it could partially have to do with Charlies death in the tank about three weeks ago. I did change the water the night Charlie (the snail) died, but Charlie fell apart as I removed Charlie from the tank. I did a 100% water change that night. But, last night when I was cleaning I found a hard circular piece that I think was Charlie's "trap door" (I believe that is what it is called). So I am wondering if bits and pieces of Charlie are still rotting in the tank.

I'll get a pic and post it.

Oh I should add I use a gravel vacuum to clean the tank. But the night Charlie died I pulled everything, but the gravel, from the tank and scrubbed it all down with warm water. I vacuumed the water until there wasn't enough to use the vacuum. Then I used the "turkey baster" water cleaner to suck out the water remaining in the gravel.

Last edited by NeptunesMom; 02-17-2013 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 02-17-2013, 01:12 PM   #6 
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The first is Neptune. I can not get a good picture of him with my cell phone. He comes out reder/pinker than he really is. The spot is right where his body and tail bend in that picture. It is on the side that is visible in the shot, and you can slightly see it. It is not very dark, and I just noticed it yesterday.

The second are his plants. There are three Amazon Swords I guess (My mistake), and one Anubis. I forgot I pulled the other because it was starting to go downhill. The Anubis in the back has been there since May of last year, and it always looks green and vibrant. The Swords need to be pulled from the tank, they are starting to go downhill too.
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Old 02-17-2013, 02:30 PM   #7 
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Natural light can be good, however, it depends on how much light you are getting, how far the tank is from the window and how long the day length. If you are too far from the window or you don't have at least 8 hours of light-You will need to supplement the light with the proper color temp light bulb-otherwise the plants could end up being part of the water quality problem.

I can't tell by the pic-but the bump on the base of his caudal peduncle-is it a defined bump or a lump-if it is more lump like-it might be a normal part of his anatomy-The muscle at the caudal peduncle can be more noticeable on some Betta than other and on one side than the other too. If its a bump-it might be a external parasite of some type.

Good that you did a water change right after you found the snail dead-With that said, 50% with vacuum is all that you needed to make-You don't need or want to remove all the mulm/debris in the tank. Too clean can sometimes be as bad as too dirty-You can remove too much of the slow growing good bacteria and allow the faster growing bad bacteria to take over and upset the balance. It is hard to support life in too clean and sterile conditions after all.....

Lovely Betta by the way....
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:54 PM   #8 
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I would say it is "lump like", but that doesn't mean it is not a bump I suppose. I have not noticed it before, until last night. I was not sure if it was my imagination or not so I did not say anything about it. It seems to be on both sides. Would it be harmful to treat him for a parasite just in case?

I think I'll give my aquatic plants to my boyfriends dad for his 100+ gallon. I'll keep the Anubis that looks healthy, and give him the Amazon Swords. He has a planted tank. He has non-aquatic plants (bamboo, and mondo grass), but hopefully he'll have luck with these aquatic ones I have. He has several bulbs and a fancy light set up.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:20 AM   #9 
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Unless he is symptomatic-I wouldn't treat....If the lump is on both sides its most likely a normal part of his anatomy and nothing to worry about.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:41 AM   #10 
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Is the bump sort of like this? This is my male VT, and this bump is normal for him.

Edit: It's also on both sides.
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