Copper/platinum genetics question

[louisvillelady]

I am a little confused by the copper and platinum genetics. My understanding is that copper is steel blue with metallic. Is this correct?

Opaque is not really a color, but a trait. But it is also steel blue. My understanding is that platinum is also a metallic steel blue. ??? Is this because platinum carries one metallic gene, and copper carries two?

So, my question is, how can you get platinum from breeding copper and blue?

An example of a spawn. I have come across many when researching this.

http://www.bettaterritory.nl/BT040904.htm

[indjo]

Your assumptions are correct. Not sure how to explain because I don't really understand scientifically. But IME copper x steel blue/turquoise/royal blue DOES NOT produce platinum. I'm guessing your example above has a platinum background.

Copper x irid = mostly irid and a few copper. This was around 2005 - 2007. Nowadays they may produce equal numbers or dominantly copper. Best explanation; probably genetic background (not sure).

White opaque = cambodian x blue (you need that special blending of genes - not as easy as it sounds)
Platinum = opaque x copper (metallic)

If your metallic has a platinum background, breeding them to non platinum metallic may produce some platinums.

Hope that helps.

[louisvillelady]

Yes thank you! I am working on a copper line. Do not really want platinum, but in researching copper, I came across several spawn logs that copper x blue produced some platinum. I'm not really interested in the platinum, but I'm confused how this can be. I do not know the background of my pair, so it will just be a surprise!. Thank you for the response. :)

[trilobite]

Copper is homozygous metallic steel blue. So if you cross a steel blue with only one copy of the metallic gene to a copper which has 2 copies of metallic gene then youll get some coppers. Hope that made sense lol

*Edit, lol sorry didnt read your question properly... no idea how platinum comes out of them but yeah as Indjo its probably their genetic background

[louisvillelady]

Thank you trilobite. Yeah, I'm not sure. It really doesn't make any sense to me. There is plain steel blue. I think I understand that. Then there is metallic steel blue, and then copper witch is also metallic steel blue. Then there is also platinum, which is a steel blue, but not understanding how that comes from copper nd blue. It must, cause I have seen many spawns that produce platinum. Just when you think you understand something, you come across something else that makes you sit back and say HUH? lol

[indjo]

Platinum and copper are the most common metallics used for "crosses" to create new colors. It's hard to get pure genetics nowadays.

[louisvillelady]

I'm sorry to keep talking about this, but if I am truly going to sincerely work on a copper line, I must have an understanding of the genetic makeup.

So, tell me if I'm thinking correctly.
Steel blue is blblnmnm
metallic steel blue is blbl+nm
Copper is blbl++

Platinum is ccblblSiSinrnr with slight Op

So you can get platinum by breeding copper to blue if they both carry a gene for cambodian and non red. Is this right?

Indjo, what do you mean by "pure genetics"? Thanks for the help.

[indjo]

By pure, I meant purely copper or purely platinum, pure blue, etc. Since they are often used as crosses, though physically they appear copper, they actually carry other genes. . . like cambodian, etc.

I think that's right (my notes are in my computer, I'm using a notebook).

If you want to work with or create coppers, simply breed copper pairs. Once they breed true, then you can cross them to other colors. Trust me, getting that "perfect" solid copper color with good form is hard enough. Too much red always seem to show up in most of them. . . . I have never crossed them to red. . . . . Though I dislike the red, they actually need to blend with a tint of red for that copper appearance. Otherwise they will look grey or steel.

Though I've worked with coppers, I seldom crossed them to other colors other than turquoise. But in the few crosses to other irids, I have never produced platinum. The only time I got platinum was when I crossed it to opaque white. So the only explanation I could think of is that copper x steel blue may create platinum if they have the genes in their background.

Lets say you do produce platinum and other undesired colors, you could cull or sell them and only keep the coppers. Keep breeding them until you have a fairly pure copper genetics.

[louisvillelady]

Thanks so much Indjo! I just wanted to have it all straight in my mind before I set myself back even further than I am. I am breeding a giant, and had a hard time finding a decent priced copper female to go with him. So I am starting out with a "green" female. Not my first choice, but I was not going to pay the price for the female. Although it would have saved me some time! lol I just didn't have it. So I really needed to understand these cene combinations so I don't make the wrong choices with the future spawns. I do believe I am going to have platinum with this bunch. Its early yet, but there are some BRIGHT white in the bunch. AAbout 50%. Then some already have a copper look to them as well! Which I was really pleased with.

Thanks again for the help!

[indjo]

Anytime :)

I know what you mean. Sometimes we have to make the best of what is available to us.
Since white is recessive, they should be easier to breed out. You might have them until F2 but should have less to none in F3.

Good Luck.