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Old 03-04-2013, 12:03 PM   #1 
noreso
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Fin Rot - not going away

Housing
What size is your tank? 1.5gal
What temperature is your tank? 76-78F
Does your tank have a filter? Yes, Whisper filter for 1-3gal
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? no
Is your tank heated? yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? a moss ball

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Zoo-Med Betta Pellets with Krill & Vitamin C
How often do you feed your betta fish? Once a day: 3 soaked pellets and 4 on Friday's for the weekend cleanse

Maintenance

How often do you perform a water change? 2x weekly once a 50% and once 100%
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? See above
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Declorinator+Slime coat and most recently some pH down (mild amount)

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters? Yes

Ammonia:0.25
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH: currently at 7.4 but without treatment is 7.6+
Hardness:
Alkalinity:

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? His fins are gradually deteriorating. Some days its worse, others it's better. Never ending cycle
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? None, at all.
When did you start noticing the symptoms? 2 weeks ago. 2 weeks after I bought him.
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? I have done aquarium salt 1 tsp for his tank. I did bettafix but he got lethargic so I discontinued it. I am doing frequent water changes.
Does your fish have any history of being ill? Not that I am aware of
How old is your fish (approximately)? Quite young, I'd say 3 months. He is quite small but has finage.

I'm concerned that his fins are just not healing. He's starting to look like a mangy poodle :( Do you guys have any suggestions? I have done a full treatment of 10 days with aquarium salt, I did 7 days of bettafix. I have exhausted those two options.
It just doesnt seem to be improving at all.

Last edited by noreso; 03-04-2013 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:39 PM   #2 
Oldfishlady
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Can you post a pic....

Sometimes, some, not all-Long fin males-assuming he is a long fin male-The water movement can cause tattered fins-especially in the smaller tanks-somewhat like the flag in the wind effect. Once they have an opening in the tissue-this can invite a secondary infection.

What I would recommend-turn off the filter for now and start a fresh/dechlorinated water and tannin treatment-along with good nutrition.

If you have either Indian almond leaf or naturally dried and fallen from the tree-Oak leaf-I would add one of these to the tank and to a jug of pre-tanned water to use for partial water changes every other day 50% for 1 week and see if you see any improvement-mainly the fin stops tattering and sign of re-growth. It can take weeks to months for full regrowth.

I would stop using the pH product-most Betta will adapt to your source water pH and unless you have proper buffers the pH will rebound on you anyway. A stable pH is more important than one rebounding.

What kind of testing products are you using and what are your baseline reading on your source water-both with and without additives-for-Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and KH/GH if you have that.
What is the source water-well water, city supplied tap water and do you have a water softening unit hooked up on the house, if so, can you bypass it for the Betta if its the type that uses salt.

Nutrition-good quality varied diet fed in small frequent meals-If you have access to live mosquito larva-offer several rinsed a couple times a day to boost protein intake to support the immune response and healing.

You don't want or need to soak the pellets-this can leach the nutrients and water soluble vitamins. Pellets don't swell up in the gut like they do in water since the gut/GI tract contains enzymes and gastric acid that will break the food down for digestion.

Good luck and keep us posted.
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:28 PM   #3 
noreso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldfishlady View Post
Can you post a pic....

Sometimes, some, not all-Long fin males-assuming he is a long fin male-The water movement can cause tattered fins-especially in the smaller tanks-somewhat like the flag in the wind effect. Once they have an opening in the tissue-this can invite a secondary infection.

What I would recommend-turn off the filter for now and start a fresh/dechlorinated water and tannin treatment-along with good nutrition.

If you have either Indian almond leaf or naturally dried and fallen from the tree-Oak leaf-I would add one of these to the tank and to a jug of pre-tanned water to use for partial water changes every other day 50% for 1 week and see if you see any improvement-mainly the fin stops tattering and sign of re-growth. It can take weeks to months for full regrowth.

I would stop using the pH product-most Betta will adapt to your source water pH and unless you have proper buffers the pH will rebound on you anyway. A stable pH is more important than one rebounding.

What kind of testing products are you using and what are your baseline reading on your source water-both with and without additives-for-Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and KH/GH if you have that.
What is the source water-well water, city supplied tap water and do you have a water softening unit hooked up on the house, if so, can you bypass it for the Betta if its the type that uses salt.

Nutrition-good quality varied diet fed in small frequent meals-If you have access to live mosquito larva-offer several rinsed a couple times a day to boost protein intake to support the immune response and healing.

You don't want or need to soak the pellets-this can leach the nutrients and water soluble vitamins. Pellets don't swell up in the gut like they do in water since the gut/GI tract contains enzymes and gastric acid that will break the food down for digestion.

Good luck and keep us posted.
I can and will post a picture.

I will turn off the filter today and do a water change. Also, I will not add any pH down.
Pre-tanned water.. I have never heard of that but I am going to guess its water you leave out in the sun to absorb any chemicals or contaminants? Please clarify, I would love to learn what this is :)
I don't have almond leave or oak but I will hustle to find some, there must be some around here.
I was using the API testing kit, for both untouched tap water the pH reading came to 7.6 or a very heavy blue (similar to the forum skin) but I have not tested for the rest besides the ammonia. I didn't log the nitrate but if I recall correctly it did come out normal. I used a friends kit so I will have to pick up my own to redo the testing.

Water source currently half is tap water and half filtered drinking water. They both come out with the same level of pH. The water here in Colorado is actually pretty tough too. I don't have a softener here. I do not have mosquito larvae but I will look around for some. Right now its freezing, a little tough to find or attempt to grow any.

The reason I soaked the pellets was because he is so small that the micro pellets wouldn't fit in his mouth and he would give up eating. I will try to cut them in half instead of soaking them.
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Last edited by noreso; 03-04-2013 at 01:48 PM.
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:59 PM   #4 
xShainax
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Looks like a mix of tail biting and catching it on something.
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Old 03-04-2013, 02:17 PM   #5 
Oldfishlady
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Tanned water is made by steeping either the Oak leaves or IAL in dechlorinated water. The longer the leaves steep-the more tannins are released-the darker the water-the better.

The tannins contain-antibacterial/fungal properties, help ease stress, they can help toughen fins/scales and slightly lower the pH naturally with long term use. Since this is a natural product you can't overdose using them, however, if you use tannins-your replacement water used for water changes will need to be pre-tanned so you don't cause chemistry shock issues-especially with large volume water changes-You usually will not have any problems with partial water changes-but its always a good idea to go slow and monitor the Betta behavior for tolerance-this is with any water change.

To make tannin treatment water-If you have any Oak trees near by (any species) collect naturally dried and fallen from the tree. Add about 20 Oak leaves crushed per gallon of dechlorinated water (I use an old 1gal milk jug) Let this steep for at least 30min before you use it-the water should start to turn a weak tea color at first-but this can be different depending on what species of Oak leaf/tree-but generally the water should start to change color from light yellow or greenish or weak tea to dark brown to reddish amber-it can vary...Be sure to shake well before use.

To start the tannin water treatment in the 1.5gal unfiltered tank-You can do this one of two ways. Either add the dried leaves (10 whole) directly to the tank whole or you can empty half the water out of the tank-leaving the Betta in the tank. Using the premixed tannin water add about 25% to the tank every 15 min until full. Don't worry about any of the leaf bit that might fall in the tank-they will continue to release tannins.

If you add the leaves whole to the tank-remove them in 24h and then use the premixed tannin water to make 50% water change every other day.

*Edit: I just now seen the pic-he looks like a doubletail and very pretty one at that and I do agree-it might be biting by the looks of the tail. With that said, the neurotic behavior could be due to space and water movement-The tannin water treatment and removing the filter can help that too. Sometimes the stress of being placed in a larger space along with water movement can cause stress that can result in neurotic behavior.

Last edited by Oldfishlady; 03-04-2013 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 03-04-2013, 02:39 PM   #6 
Agility4fun
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Hi noreso, I'm in the same boat as you. I used Bettafix before and didn't have much success, then I read it shouldn't be used at all.

I started today on AQ salt and stress coat. My son's fish is a pitiful little puppy right now, fingers crossed our guys get through this.

Keep us posted.
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Old 03-04-2013, 02:51 PM   #7 
noreso
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Thanks for the suggestions and good vibes everyone.
Im worried that it might be rot still because in the middle of his fins he will occasionally get a tear. I have shut off his filter and LED light because its unfortunately, connected. We will let him simmer and see!
Meanwhile, i will search for some oak leaves and start a tanning!
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:42 PM   #8 
GailC
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I had one of my bettas in a tank with the hard plastic plant like yours and he shredded hid fins on it. Silk plants are a better choice.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:54 PM   #9 
noreso
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GailC-I was afraid that could be problem after observing him. He rams himself into the plants and then squirms around violently in between them.

It has been day 2 without the filter. His fins look better and he seems to enjoy not having too much movement in there. This morning I found a pretty little nest. Later on he got lethargic and let it fall apart. He had his breakfast and is due for a water change today.
Still no luck on the oak leaves!
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:14 PM   #10 
Oldfishlady
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When you say "rams" do you mean flashing or rubbing himself on objects in the tank, if so, he is itchy for some reason-either parasites or heavy metals in the water.
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