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Old 03-16-2013, 07:10 AM   #11 
Bombalurina
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The most effective way to get change is the carrot and stick - write up betta-care flyers (make them as professional as possible - high quality photos and no spelling or grammatical errors) and ask to leave them in shops (the carrot) and threaten (anonymously) to not only boycott the shop, but to encourage everyone you know to do the same, as well as writing to the corporate powers that be (the stick).
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:17 AM   #12 
caissacrowntails
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Originally Posted by Bombalurina View Post
The most effective way to get change is the carrot and stick - write up betta-care flyers (make them as professional as possible - high quality photos and no spelling or grammatical errors) and ask to leave them in shops (the carrot) and threaten (anonymously) to not only boycott the shop, but to encourage everyone you know to do the same, as well as writing to the corporate powers that be (the stick).
that sounds like a good plan!, although am not sure the "threaten" part will be effective especially with big chains store
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:24 AM   #13 
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Depends how many people you can imply will boycott after your warning. Mention that you plan to make a petition to be circulated amongst friends, then friends of friends, etc, or a group, or even just word of mouth to be spread through everybody you know. :) Here in my little city, that would mean everyone in the whole place would know within days. :p Admittedly, in a bigger city it might not mean so much, but losing customers is always a threat for retail. :) Reputation is a massive thing.

Sorry, have hijacked this thread a little. :p I would always go with the betta that chooses you - you know, the one you can't walk away from. :p
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Old 03-16-2013, 09:48 AM   #14 
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Originally Posted by jadaBlu View Post
From what I've read some of the rescues are coming from the store anyway the fish that are in bad shape and were nursed back to health. I guess you are enabling someone who has the facilities and space to go get more that would otherwise die. One thing that bothers me is people that are breeding them and then selling or giving "extra" offspring to the pet store with the potential suffer like any other betta. I don't know how in good conscience anyone can do that.
Wow.. okay, so my spawn of 550 I have going right now.. I can't sell that many to people personally.. so instead of me consigning with a wholesaler who will sell some of them to various pet stores.. and give them a chance at finding a home, I should just go ahead and kill them right there on the spot? Hmm.. chance at life or just go ahead and kill them.

Not every betta in pet stores suffer. Places like Walmart who don't have people assigned to their care, yes, many will suffer. But not all pet stores.

You can not judge people who try to give their babies a home and say they don't care.. you do realize how many breeders here on this forum that sell to stores, right? And most breeders would send their fish to a pet store if they had the chance.. because it's not all bad.

You can have your opinion, but please don't judge others in how they care for their fish.. trust me, breeders CARE and give a darn about the fish they raise from tiny dots.. they know a chance is better than in the culling cup.
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Old 03-16-2013, 10:15 AM   #15 
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I don't think "not selling to the abusive stores" will end the problems, cos they can just get them elsewhere, like thailand for examples..or even indonesia. "petshop/store quality bettas" are cheap here, less than 1 US$ and I don't want to add "the supply", which is why I stop " experimenting on form (used to cross HM to CT, HM to PK for example ) which usually result in 1 or 2 nice looking offsprings leaving the others in "unclear" category. Plus I always avoid large spawn ( since I use smaller breeding tanks and extracting the female out before all eggs are out, each spawn usually give me less than 100 offspring ). That means...not selling to them..is not gonna end the problem, not buying from them..is also not going to end it. Or perhaps..bombalurina's idea of "boycotting" them...not just from bettas, but all their stuffs, and buy from their rival instead ( I realize their rival possibly doing the same thing, but maybe we can start to "teach" them one at a time ). Sounds a bit absurd I know, but what else can we do?
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Old 03-16-2013, 04:40 PM   #16 
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My statement may sound judgemental and it's a complicated issue. However, I find it really depressing to see how the fish are suffering. Especially since you can't just put a bunch of males in one tank and save more. I have to ask how would you feel to go back to a store and see the fish you nurtured from dots sick,dying and suffering? Personally, I would want to vomit. Many have more compassion for cats and dogs. So let's just take a second and imagine these fish are cats or dogs and they are sold off to pet stores and you came to find them lying in their own urine and feces sick and dying.

So limiting how much breeding you do would be an answer and not breeding until all fish are placed responsibly would be an answer. If you can't place what you have don't breed more. The fish are your responsibility when you decide to breed. For a lifetime if needed. Just like a cat or dog should be. It's known that bettas are unique, the males must be separated and a can be huge financial responsibility so large scale breeding without lots of housing,time and dollars is not a good idea.

I think it would be better place an ad and to sell to individuals with requirements that prove they have the proper facilities to care for them (like arrive with the proper size tank, heater and filter or let you deliver) just like most rescues do with cats and dogs. Also good professional breeders of cats and dogs don't breed unless they already have homes lined up for the animals produced and they screen the homes. While this might not allow you to breed multiple spawn numerous times it's responsible and it veers away from being part of the problem.
The mass betta selling trade is a like the equivalent of dictatorial regime. You can operate slowly and methodically and ethically and be a smaller potato or you can be part of and contribute to the regime. There certainly will be mass imports and all sorts of unethical activity but home breeders as individuals should not be part of this. Your heart should tell you this. Especially since you clearly understand what will likely happen to the fish.


The difference you could make might be that you form a relationship with a LFS or pet shop that you make sure and assist them with having proper housing for fish that you want place in homes (absolutely no cups!) and be sure the shop sells only minimum 2.5 gallon tanks or larger for them provides proper care sheets,food, heaters ect. You can drop by and make sure all is going well. That is ethical. Once again you don't get to do numerous breeds but you can certainly establish solid reputation via photos and success stories so people on sites like this will pursue buying from you. I suspect a waiting list might form.

Last edited by jadaBlu; 03-16-2013 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 03-16-2013, 05:42 PM   #17 
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I believe one of the best methods would be to RAISE THE FRY WITH THE DAD. BettySplendens tried this and she was left with about 40 fry. The male will scoop the fry in his mouth and if they were deformed he would cull the deformed himself. This would keep numbers down however, the more breeder fish are sold, the less are sold from petstores.
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Old 03-16-2013, 06:32 PM   #18 
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On the original topic: Adopt from a store, unless you're close to a rescue, then go ahead and adopt through the rescue.
__________________________________________________ _______

On the side topic here:
In theory, to compare puppies and kittens to fish, they'd have to have more than being young in common. Myates had one spawn that was over 500 babies. Plenty of spawns are over 200, and at some point "Jarring" of the young males has to occur, or they'll start killing each other. You can't spay and neuter a fish, there's little to no veterinary care outside of the home, and they have a much shorter lifespan than the dogs and cats. Even so, there's still people out there treating their dogs the same way most people treat fish. The dogs are given enough to survive, not thrive, they're tossed outside and ignored, no bedding, or heat lamp to keep them warm, sometimes without even a doghouse to block the elements.

Cats are feral everywhere, eating out of trashcans, and sleeping in car engines for heat. Our cats were going to be drowned simply for existing where they weren't wanted, my grandma used to drown them in burlap sacks in the cattle water troughs. I can't even count how many cats I see on the side of the road with tire marks from someone swerving TO hit them!!! Do they really have it much better?

The only people who really care about the animals' welfare are people like us, who spend our free time cruising forums and the internet to give our pets the best options available to us.

Supposedly, there's 48,000+ users on this forum. How many of them are active? And how many of them are willing to pay for a betta plus shipping as opposed to running to the nearest shop and saving one that actually needs help?

To be entirely honest, and I have absolutely nothing against Moonshadow, or her rescue, but I'm more likely to go save a fish from my local stores than to adopt from a rescue, especially if that fish originally came from a store just like the ones I go to. It's the same difference at the end of the day, except adopting from someone who isn't local is condemning the fish down the street.

with all of my fish for the last 8 years being rescued from the stores (including rehabilitating a red bellied piranha!), I'm finally getting some bettas from one of our breeders here on the forum, and even then, I jumped on the chance to take the one who wasn't very likely to receive a home because of a split fin. Why? Because our home is perfect for the oddballs that no one else wants.

Good breeders like the ones you find here are very important because they give us better options than the milled fish that you usually find in the stores, and if more stores stocked from local supply, the whole situation would be better for the bettas in general. They'd be more likely to be healthy, and the breeder could harass the stores to do it right. It'd save them from being mass produced in Florida, and shipped all over the country in cramped little bags with very little water.

[/soapbox]
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:38 PM   #19 
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*slow clap*

:) We can't solve the problem, just educate people who are wanting to be educated in the care of the fish. Each person decides whether they want to "save" a fish at the store, or spend the money (usually over $40 for a single fish) to ship from a breeder. People want "cheap and easy" fish sometimes, and they will buy it from the store.. people who have no idea about their care, or the forum, etc. We can't stop them.. but we can be here for when they have questions about the care of their new fish. That is where we can help the most, make a difference. One fish at a time, one household at a time. And THAT counts.

I will send very healthy fish to the person who then ships them to stores, as well as individual people he sells to. They have a chance at a home, which is better than me killing them. Do I want to see my fish suffer? No. But I can't guarantee that the fish I ship to a person on FB, or even here on the forums, will be giving them the best life possible. They may end up in someone's unheated vase for all I know. I can't control that. All I can control is their health when they leave and whether or not I will give them a chance to find a home. If 1 out of every 10 I send out gets a home, then that is a win - that's 1 more that is not flushed down the toilet.
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Old 03-17-2013, 12:39 AM   #20 
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Quite a lovely debate we have going here. I seem to remember reading once, on this forum.. It's not the actual sale of the fish that garners the most profit for a pet store. It's the sale of all the other items. I do NOT purchase any supplies from Walmart, due to their treatment or lack thereof, of their Bettas. I would not have a problem walking into Walmart and rescuing one of our finned friends. But where you can make your statement is in the not purchasing food, filters, heaters, tanks etc. Where you can really get your point across is in the education of people on Betta Splendens. Most ppl are truly ignorant to the proper housing, temperature and feeding. These little fellas end up in 1/2 gallon tanks or decorative wall hangers and vases, without proper oxygenation and nutrition. When you're at the Pet Store and see someone picking out those types of items, just take a minute to teach them o thing or two. If you can get your message to through to just one person at a time, your helping to save one little Betta at a time.
Well I'm gonna consider walking through and seeing if one of our local store has a sweet boy or girl that needs some extra tlc. Thanks for all the input and messages of condolences
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