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Old 05-14-2013, 08:08 PM   #1 
Tachikoma
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Bloated, mildly pineconing fish

Housing
What size is your tank? 10L, roughly 3 gallons
What temperature is your tank? 25 Celsius
Does your tank have a filter? Yes, a sponge filter
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? Yes
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? A java fern

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Atison's Betta Pro, sometimes cooked shrimp
How often do you feed your betta fish? Twice a day, dwindled down from 6+ pellets each time to 1-3 pellets now

Maintenance

How often do you perform a water change? Not too often, but approximately once or twice a week now
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? Around 50%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Indian almond leaves. ~1 teaspoon of epsom salt as well, now.

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity:

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Suspected that he has a tumor growing, noticed it about a month ago. Tumor seemed to subside after a while, but now he has a generalised bloat as well as slight pineconing.
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Has become very lethargic
When did you start noticing the symptoms? Symptoms started a month ago
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? ~1 tsp/gal Epsom salt, added half a capful of Maracyn Plus yesterday
Does your fish have any history of being ill? None prior to this, was rescued from terrible living conditions about a year ago and had been healthy until very recently.
How old is your fish (approximately)? Around 2 years old

I found a tumour-like growth on Boris about a month ago, and started to treat it using a combination of epsom salt + indian almond leaves as per OFL's recommendations. The tumour did look like it was starting to subside, but the general lethargy didn't go away. He stayed on the bottom most of the time, looking generally disinterested (even in food, and he was a massive glutton before this). Instead of a tumour he now looks like he has some sort of generalised bloat, which seems indicative of swim bladder disorder...

Then I committed a bunch of mistakes... such as moving him into a new 28L tank which he hated (was too deep), and moving him back to his old 10L food container. Adding Maracyn Plus did not seem to help, if anything I probably made it worse since he started to look pineconey about a day after (today).

Should I stop dosing the fish with more Maracyn Plus (I've only dosed once, description says I need to dose 3 times), since it appears to be making things worse?

Since I've made a few water changes during the epsom salt treatment, I found it quite difficult to keep track of the epsom salt concentration in the water. I'm tempted to increase the epsom salt dosage, but I really would prefer to measure it first before going ahead. Does anyone have any idea on how I might do that?

Last edited by Tachikoma; 05-14-2013 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:29 PM   #2 
jadaBlu
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Kanaplex is supposed to be the drug to use for this condition. You might have to get it online. Pet mountain and Amazon.com sell it. You can try some of this advice.
http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com...th-dropsy.html

The only part I would not follow is the part about adding regular salt to the treatment. This is why (they talk about goldfish but note they also mention freshwater fish in general). The people writing the article are fish vets.
http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/articles.html
I feel for you I just lost a fish with a similar condition. I hope you have luck treating him. If you cannot get Kanaplex some people have had luck with amoxicillan.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:23 PM   #3 
LittleBlueFishlets
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I would increase the Epsom salt dosage to at least 1 teaspoon per gallon.

There are several ways to do this, and keep track of the dosage. Here is one way:
  • Fill a 1 gal container with 1 gal of water.
  • Add 1 teaspoon of Epsom salt.
  • Add Water Conditioner.
  • Stir or shake until the Epsom salt is completely dissolved.
When you do partial water changes, simply use the solution in this container. This will give you a consistent 1 teaspoon per gallon dosage.

Salts do not evaporate, so you do not need to add more. Simply use the container for your partial water changes, and your dosage will be correct.

The recommended dosages for Epsom salt range from 1 to 3 teaspoons per gallon. If you decide to go higher, just mix the desired amount of Epsom salt into your one gal container. As long as you use this for your water changes, you'll keep a consistent dosage.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:49 PM   #4 
Tachikoma
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Thanks, I'll add the epsom salt to the water I've reserved for water changes.

I live in Australia, so antibiotics are quite hard to get. The reason I waited so long to use Maracyn Plus was because I had to wait 3 weeks for it to arrive from the US.
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Old 05-14-2013, 11:09 PM   #5 
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Perhaps you know someone with human amoxcillan that isn't too old then in a capsule. You'd probably only need one or two and it would have to be dosed for a fish. I know the label it as fishmox in some places if want to see if you can get it under fish form. The methylene blue should be possible to find.
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Old 05-14-2013, 11:36 PM   #6 
LittleBlueFishlets
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I did some research on the active ingredients in Maracyn Plus: Sulfadimidine and Trimethoprim.

There is a similar product used in humans, that contains trimethoprim and sulfamethoxazole. A study showed that it can injure the kidneys. (Meant to include the link, but I accidentally closed that browser tab.)

Do you think the tumor is due to a bacterial infection?

If you think he has a tumor that isn't caused by a bacterial infection, and you found that the Maracyn Plus made him worse, I would stop using it. It puts stress on the kidneys, which can contribute to bloat and fluid retention.
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:02 AM   #7 
Tachikoma
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Hmm... ok, more reason to stop then. Almost all antibiotics seem to have some adverse effect on the kidney though, including kanaplex.

I can get some human amoxycillin, I suppose, but I'm also not sure it really is a bacterial infection.
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:24 AM   #8 
LittleBlueFishlets
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Kanaplex is very tough on the kidneys....
"Kanamycin can cause severe damage to the kidneys and can also cause hearing loss. You will need to be closely monitored by your health care provider. Be sure your doctor is aware of any other medications you may be taking."
http://www.drugs.com/cdi/kanamycin.html

Found this on amoxicillian.....:
"The dose should be reduced in patients with severe renal function impairment."
http://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/24951/spc

Last edited by LittleBlueFishlets; 05-15-2013 at 12:32 AM.
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:32 AM   #9 
MattsBettas
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If this is a bacterial infection, using an antibiotic may be the only option, especially once it has reached dropsy. Yes, it will cause stress on the kidneys. Kanaplex is easier on kidneys then maracyn, I think.
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:20 AM   #10 
Tachikoma
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It hasn't reached dropsy yet, I think. The pineconing is very mild, and only barely noticeable.
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