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Old 05-28-2013, 10:34 PM   #21 
Jexx
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that is a good point to consider. thank you jada. do you know what name they sell that under?
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Old 05-28-2013, 11:25 PM   #22 
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It's in API general cure but that has a anti-parasitic in it to. I am sure if that is needed also. I do know that while can be harder to find they do sell it separately. I I think Little blue was giving it to her fish maybe she will know.
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Old 05-28-2013, 11:36 PM   #23 
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I believe you can safely combine kanaplex, furan, and general cure but LBF would know for sure. Black feces often indicates bleeding in the upper gi tract in humans... I don't know about fish but it could mean the same thing.

Do you know if your girl could have recently banged herself (jumping, wc accident, etc).
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Old 05-29-2013, 07:39 AM   #24 
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You are probably doing this already since she is getting meds but be sure you are soaking her pellets so her GI tract is less irritated. I actually read recently that this is one thing you can do to help prevent dropsy. There are different causes of dropsy so it won't prevent all dropsy but it is one preventative and in her case just one thing to make eating easier.
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Old 05-29-2013, 07:41 AM   #25 
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jadablue, soaking pellets even when the fish is healthy may not be a good idea since nutrients are lost, but I agree, in this case, it is probably best to feed soft foods.
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:04 AM   #26 
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first answer: Matt, She is a jumper. She jumps alllll the time. 2 months ago she jumped out of her tank onto the floor. I returned her to her tank and she recovered. On a reg basis she would jump when i was feeding her, not out of the tank but she would hit the side of the rim and bounce back into the tank. even when I made sure not to let her see the food until it was in the water, she would still do this. Now, of course, she is not jumping as she is too ill and just hiding. So all that being said it is entirely possible she has internal injuries. When i saw black feces immediately i thought internal bleeding. I've noticed, sometimes, when i feed her (eggs or frozen foods) it looks like tiny pieces of the chewed up food coming out of her gills. it doesn't happen all the time but I have seen it twice over the past 3 days.

I am not soaking her pellets, I never do. She has always preferred the act of crunching them. The past 2 days she has been eating cooked egg yolk. so that is already soft. yesterday she ate it for both meals, medicated with kanaplex. This morning she ate 3 nls pellets because she refused the egg yolk. I think she knows there is medication in it or she is tired of it already.

I added the kanaplex dose to her water last night along with the furan meds and epsom salt. Tonight I bring the dose of epsom up to a full 3 tsp/gallon. I don't know that she is getting worse at all, but she is def not looking better.
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Old 05-29-2013, 03:04 PM   #27 
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Yes, you can combine Kanaplex, Furan 2 (Bifuran/Jungle Fungus Clear) and Epsom salt along with an antiparasitical such as API General Cure (Metronidazole and Praziquantel).

BUT.... I'm concerned about the effects of all these medications on her. All are processed by the liver, and excreted by the kidneys. Pineconing occurs when there is significant fluid buildup, indicating that the kidneys are struggling already. (This is why dropsy is so difficult to treat.)

The fact that she's eating is good. Personally, I would feed her whatever she is willing to eat. Quality food will help her immune system produce antibodies, etc.

From what I've read, fish can apparently push food out of their gills! She's pineconed, so there may also be swelling that makes it difficult for her to swallow. Since she likes the crunchy pellets, you can use a fingernail to cut them in half. The smaller size may be easier for her to swallow right now.

I would continue to monitor her poop.

If the black poop was a one-time thing, I'd assume it was just something that she ate, or caused by the Epsom salt's laxative effect. I mentioned previously that, in humans, black feces can indicate internal bleeding (such as a bleeding ulcer). But it can also be caused by a diet high in iron, or even foods that are very dark-colored.

Also, I read a study recently in which they used Epsom salt to treat internal parasites. The theory is that the Epsom salt's laxative effect expels enough parasites that the fish's immune system is able to control the rest. They used a fairly high concentration of Epsom salt in the study. So if she does have parasites, it's possible that the Epsom salt is expelling them.

Anyway, I would say give her one more day on Epsom salt, so you can see what happens at full dosage. She's on the Kanaplex and furan meds, so you've got the bacterial perspective pretty well covered..... If anything starts to look worse (more pineconing, etc), then you can consider adding an antiparasitical medication.

API General Cure contains Metronidazole and Praziquantel, which treat the majority of aquatic parasites. Some people have had good success soaking pellets in the General Cure, too. Soaking them takes the meds internally, which is where the parasites are located.
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Old 05-29-2013, 07:14 PM   #28 
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Thank you so much for all that info. It is very helpful. Tonight I am supposed to do the water change where the epsom salt is a full 3tsp per gallon. one thing that has me confused is this: the furan meds say to do a 100% change daily and redose. kanaplex says to dose every 2 days. how do i work that one out? I need to do the change so i can redose the furan and up the epsom. what do i do about the kanaplex?
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Old 05-29-2013, 08:47 PM   #29 
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I would follow the Kanaplex recommendation. That's the medication that's most likely to treat any bacterial infection. So you added Kanaplex yesterday? If so, I would go to every-other-day water changes....

How much Epsom salt is in the tank now? And is she still in the 5.5 gal tank?

I'm going to assume that she's still in the 5.5 gal tank, and that there is currently is about 2.5 teaspoons per gallon in there.... If this is correct, then:

1) Today (Wed) - Put a small amount of tank water into a cup. Add about 2 teaspoons Epsom salt. Stir until completely dissolved. Slowly add the water back into the tank - take about 15 min to do this. This will increase the Epsom salt dosage close to 3 tsp/gal, but leave the Furan and Kanaplex in the water.

2) Redose the Furan tonight.

3) Tomorrow (Thurs) - Do a water change using 3 teaspoons Epsom salt per gallon. Redose the Furan and Kanaplex.

4) Fri - Redose the furan.

5) Sat - Do a water change using 3 teaspoons Epsom salt per gallon. Redose the Furan and Kanaplex.

Etc.

If at any time, she looks worse, or if you continue to see discolored poop, consider using the API General Cure.
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Old 05-29-2013, 08:56 PM   #30 
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thank you. well, she is already looking better. she is still pine coned but she has gotten much skinnier and the pineconing isn't as obvious. I did end up doing a water change tonight and redosing everything because i didn't get the message in time. Tomorrow I will go by your recommendation. She is still in the 5.5. I decided it would be easier on her to stay in her home while she was medicated. As of tonight she is at 3 tsp of epsom salt, full dose of kanaplex, full dos or furan, stress coat and vitachem. I really hope this is a good sign and she makes it through! While I was acclimatizing her, she pooped and the poop was regular brown color. when I had changed her water there were a few pieces of black poop but they were much smaller. maybe whatever it is is finally leaving her system! also, she ate 5 pellets tonight and lunged at them :D
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