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Old 07-04-2013, 06:05 PM   #1 
darkangel
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how to ammonia poisoning?

What size is your tank? 2 gal quarantine (if she lives, she is to have 1/3 of a divided 10 gallon eventually)
What temperature is your tank? 81F
Does your tank have a filter? Nope
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? Nope
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? None

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? So far she had some frozen brineshrimp
How often do you feed your betta fish? 2x a day

Maintenance
How often do you perform a water change? Daily for the quarantine tank
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 100%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Prime

Water Parameters: Yes
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:0 in quarantine, 8ppm in her cup
Nitrite:0
Nitrate:0
pH:8.2 in quarantine
Hardness:hard
Alkalinity: n/a

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? she is extremely clamped, pale and have ammonia burns on gills and fins
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? lethargic
When did you start noticing the symptoms? got her today
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? Clean warm water
Does your fish have any history of being ill? new
How old is your fish (approximately)? I say no more than 3 month, she is tiny


I got a little red female today. She has been sitting in my local petsmart since forever and was move to the 50% off shelf along with other half-dead fish. I felt so bad for her because she is still practically a baby and when I picked her cup up, she started frantically swimming against the cup and was so desperate to get out that I decided her life was worth 3 dollars.

Right now she is in a 2 gallon quarantine, with some new warm clean water. She has really bad ammonia burns on her gills and is very clamped. She is very skinny too.

Is there anything I can add to treat ammonia burns? I read that you can add a little extra water conditioner.

Hopefully she will make it, once my 10 gallon is done cycling, she will get 1/3 of it to herself.
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Old 07-04-2013, 06:25 PM   #2 
LebronTheBetta
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What a poor fish. She's lucky to have someone take her in! Did you pay for her fully? The store should be ashamed, up to 8ppm! D:<

For ammonia burns, aquarium salt would treat it. 1-2 teaspoons; depending on how deep they are. I'm sure you know how to do the treatment. Dissolving it first, 100% changes daily, etc. etc. Good luck!
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Old 07-04-2013, 06:29 PM   #3 
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Nitrofuracin Green is the best treatment I have ever used for ammonia burn and physical damage and I do not believe anything is better. It acts as an antibacterial, antimicrobial, antiprotozoa, antiparasitic, and antifungi without causing significant stress to even very delicate fish. The purpose of the wide spectrum of activity is because the immune system is so prone to secondary infections. The ingredients are: Nitrofurazone, Furazolidone, Methylene Blue and sodium chloride...while all of those are potentially extremely toxic, the blend of each is at a very small level far below standard treatment dosing if you were to use only one alone, in which each work in a synergistic fashion to potentiate each other...hence stress is minimized, plus the damage to biological filters is less than many other meds. It essentially stops further development of disease while allowing the fishies' immune system to recover and body to heal.

There is a lot of backing supporting its effectiveness and most makers of products for fish who make hundred of products will speak to it as being the ideal for such a situation, especially in conditions in which you are dealing with highly stressed fish potentially stressed further by meds and secondary infection. The small amount of meth blue is not enough to stain a tank, but enough to make breathing easier if the gills are burned common in ammonia environments.

Poor fishy...you have one helluva fighter to withstand 8ppm in the sale jar. Happily tho, I've seen thousands of fish make comebacks from terrible physical damage, heater burns, and ammo burns...when we had an operation going we treated virtually all fish with Nitro Green in QT when they arrived given how common ammonia burns and physical damage is during shipping and how well it works.
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Old 07-04-2013, 06:54 PM   #4 
darkangel
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She threw the brine shrimp up. Urg, Her gills are especially bad, they are brown and bleeding...

I paid 50%, all the bettas are 5 dollars at my petsmart. My city is not very big, there is only 1 petsmart in the entire city, for a lack of better words, it is super ghetto, there is more fish in their 50% of shelf than their regular shelf. No one buys them or cares for them and 90% bettas are dying or dead. I was gonna buy water conditioner from them but decided they don't deserve my money. They really need to shut their fish section down. D:

I added 1 tsp of aquarium salt. Do you know where I can get Nitrofuracin Green? I looked it up online, I don't think any petstores in my city carries them and the ones online come in gigantic jugs.

Does anyone know if Methylene Blue helps? I recall reading it somewhere that it helps nitrite poisoning. Would it work for ammonia? they are pretty similar and my local pet supply store carry it.
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Old 07-04-2013, 07:02 PM   #5 
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I have dealt with ammonia burns twice in one of my fish (the second one was my fault as I cycled his tank improperly) and daily water changes, Stress Coat, and aquarium salt healed him in two days flat both times!
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Old 07-04-2013, 07:34 PM   #6 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tngirl92 View Post
I have dealt with ammonia burns twice in one of my fish (the second one was my fault as I cycled his tank improperly) and daily water changes, Stress Coat, and aquarium salt healed him in two days flat both times!
Thanks, can I use stress coat with prime? I don't think you can over condition water?

I also have pure aloe vera extract, my mom use it on her face. Would that help if I added a drop?

I'm kind of worried because once I had her under some lights, her gill plate looks really bloody.
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Old 07-04-2013, 09:23 PM   #7 
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Yes, stress coat with Prime can work. You can only over condition water if it's 5x-10x the recommended amount. That's when the fish start to have trouble breathing.. As for the aloe, I think the aloe in the stress coat will cover it. Best to not add so many chemicals, it'll disturb the balance.
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Old 07-05-2013, 12:59 AM   #8 
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Keep using Prime IMO. Prime and Purigen combined filter virtually all pollutants that harm fish and Prime is one of or the best on the market of its type.

It is also worth noting that Prime neutralizes ammonia, and detoxifies nitrite and and nitrate where as Stress Coat does not...for this reason alone, I look at Prime as a good choice for a fish in QT that has been burned by ammonia for the reason that the fish cannot heal if ammonia is still present. The aloe additive in Stress Coat is still up for debate as to how much it actually does, if anything...it's a good conditioner, but the aloe portion may be a gimmick like MelaFix.

Severely burned fish benefit from super-high DO levels either from a filter that can do mechanical aeration or a stone-hose-pump. Neither Prime nor Stress Coat increase DO levels which is a major concern with ammonia poisoning as higher DO levels help the fish breath easier and reduces stress to help it's immune system recover. If bettas are like gouramis, even though they can breath air, they will still benefit greatly from high DO levels. Frequent water changes like what you listed will also help maintain high DO levels.

Meth blue, beyond the prevention of some fungi and fungi on eggs, isnt an ideal medication by itself (which stains everything and there is a lot of resistance to pathogens it once treated easily years ago). It's primary usage beyond preventing some fungi is its affect on DO levels and sometimes as an indicator for changes in DO levels with the color turning clearer (light does affect this however). By its self, it is more a preventive than a treatment. It's usage in Nitro Green also helps prevent superficial (and generally secondary) fungi from developing. Many breeders have switched to shipping with Nitro Green given the other benefits it offers when fish are prone to injury that can lead to infections that wipe out entire tanks.

Further, safer medications like quinine sulfate, griseofulvin, praziquental, metronidazole, and others have replaced its usage and the usage of malachite green, formalin, dylox 80 etc. as the new medications are safer, non-staining, easier on the biological filter, can be used with delicate fish that years ago simply could not be treated, and they are far less toxic. Some of these newer medications also kill parasites/protozoa at both the free swimming and attached stages, where older medications only did the former. For example, anything used to treat ich other than quinine sulfate is less effective, slower acting, harms the biological filter much more, requires a longer period of dosing, is significantly more toxic, and usually more expensive. Many of the conditions malachite green, salt, and salt baths once treated no longer respond to the treatment.

A few makers have Nitro Green for smaller quantities for cheap...
http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/products3.html
25 grams for $10, and it treats hundreds of gallons. For those whom have used it, they are still using it as their 'go-to' and they can speak to its value beyond many traditional treatments with more variable outcomes that depend more on the fish's immune system than the treatment itself. There are traditional and some alternative treatments used, but those whom have used NG will attest to its superiority, safety, and versatility. People who have koi ponds where koi sometimes develop koi sores can especially attest. If you are going to have only one thing for illness and QT treatments, this is it. It's cheaper than 99% of stuff in a boxed store and it works on a variety of ailments and works well.
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Old 07-05-2013, 04:36 AM   #9 
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Can someone please tell me what it means or looks like if a fish is clamped? I keep seeing the term written on here, and I know what a clamp is, but I don't know what it means when referencing a fish. Thanks!
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Old 07-05-2013, 12:38 PM   #10 
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http://www.gbasonline.org/images/clamped_fins.gif

Some fish may clamp all fins except the tail fins. It is a general sign of feeling unwell and is generally from water parameters. At the first sign of clamped fins, water testing should be done without delay, and correction to parameters that are not in check. Writing down pH is worthwhile as well, as some water is more prone to pH drift than others, and basic test kits will not be able to test for this (GH/KH v. pH v. temp v. temp change). Further, most test strips are approximations and most employees of non-speciality stores are idiots using test strips which are often contaminated (in other terms, test yourself, ideally test using liquid test kits, and if you need support there is generally better help at well-rated specialty stores instead of big box stores where most employees really do not specialize nor understand pillars of fishkeeping and fish health).
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